# fire paste - does this extraordinary claim have extraordinary proof? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904 "2003-11-07T15:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/1 "2003-11-07T15:57:42Z")
From [here](http://www.improbable.com/news/2003/oct/troy-flamerproof.html) > [@](#): > > Troy Hurtubise says he doesn’t feel the heat, even with a 2,000° C blowtorch flame blazing at his head. > > Hurtubise has invented a physics-defying substance called fire paste, which he claims eliminates the cross-transfer of heat and prevents anything coated in the substance from burning up. > > Not only does the paste stop heat from getting through, it cools to the touch within 20 seconds of the fire source being removed. Now, this certainly is an extraordinary claim and one which is seen hundreds of times on the internet yet never seems to materialise. However, the inventor is not some random internet nut and is actually the inventer, Troy, of the “Ursus” bear suit which most definatly DOES work. For anyone that doesn’t know, Troy has appeared numerous times demostrating his alomst invincible suit which allows him to tackle grizzly’s, get run over by trucks, get hit by wrecking balls and the like. However, this IS an extraordinary claim and I have a hard time even imagining how such a substance would work. The physics just seem impossible. He seems willing to at least go through to motions of truely independant testing which most true nuts shy away from yet his statements do sound familiar. What is everyones opinon? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/2 "2003-11-07T16:14:53Z")
I know that coating something in a a graphite-based spray allows it to withstand the metal-vapourising temperatures of a nuclear detonation - perhaps it’s based on similar stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/3 "2003-11-07T16:25:54Z")
But the part that is amazing is its heat dissipation. A certain amount of energy goes in and a certain amount has to go out. There are only 3 known ways for heat energy to flow and I don’t see how this works via any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/4 "2003-11-07T16:38:16Z")
It might not be “defying physics”. It could be a combination of material with a high specific heat and a manufacturing method that makes heat transfer difficult (a lot of little bitty holes). It does look somewhat fibrous in the photos. It’s not necessarily as far-out as the press breathlessly claims. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/5 "2003-11-07T16:40:32Z")
My thermodynamics may not be up to snuff but if some material has such amazingly good heat transfer qualities that it can disspiate its own stored heat enegry so quickly (c.f. aluminum), then it should be a conductor of heat, not an insulator. Unless this is something like asbestos, that simply doesn’t absorb the radient heat energy to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/6 "2003-11-07T16:48:31Z")
As I said: High specific heat, like asbestos. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/7 "2003-11-07T16:51:29Z")
Forget the heat paste – I want to know what the deal is with the anti-bear armor the article talks about. Let me say that again: _anti-bear armor_. WTF? And it looks like something straight out of anime sci-fi cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/8 "2003-11-07T16:57:07Z")
> [@](#): > > The fire insurance industry is also interested, Hurtubise said, and has asked him to demonstrate. > > He’s going to build two small-scale houses, coat one with fire paste and leave the other as is. Then they’re both going to be set on fire. When the fire paste is sprayed off, Hurtubise said, the house will be there intact. > “It will save the insurance industry billions,” Hurtubise said. So I have to coat my house with fire paste after every rain? And if a house has been coated with fire paste and then set on fire, what’s actually feeding the fire if not the house - the paste? > [@](#): > > Hurtubise demonstrated the heat resistant properties of fire paste on a segment produced by and aired Sept. 2 on the Discovery Channel program The Daily Planet. [Link to Daily Planet video.](http://patty.exn.ca/video/?video=exn20030903-firepaste.asx) Also has some interesting footage of a guy wearing the bear armor getting hit by a car. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/9 "2003-11-07T17:23:39Z")
I remember seeing on TV the Shuttle tiles being heated up to white hot, and then someone holding them in their hand. The SHC was so high that the heat instantly dissipated, and they hardly conducted at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/10 "2003-11-07T17:29:44Z")
But specific heat capacity just tells us how much heat it can HOLD. maybe something with high SHC can withstand a 20 min blowtorch but its useless against 10 hours of burning in jet fuel for example. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/11 "2003-11-07T22:59:39Z")
Ok this is officially freaky. I spent quite some time last night searching the Internet for materials with this type of property. I was looking for information on gels, which could insulate an object from small temperature changes caused by an adjacent heat source (suffice to say this would be very useful for my current lab project). I was vaguely remembering a similar demonstration on an old Tomorrows World program in which they had coated an egg and blowtorched it. I almost asked for help here too. I found a few places selling similar products (including one for forest fire house insulation) but none that provided sufficient information to convince me that the whole thing was on the level. Most of them claimed to work through a combination of insulation (high heat capacity?) and slow evaporation. If this was indeed the case can any one hazard a guess as to whether they would provide any protection against smaller temperature changes (5-15 degrees)? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/12 "2003-11-08T04:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I remember seeing on TV the Shuttle tiles being heated up to white hot, and then someone holding them in their hand. The SHC was so high that the heat instantly dissipated, and they hardly conducted at all. \*\* I saw that too, it was simply amazing, one side of the tile was still red hot, and the other, about 2 centimeters appart was on the palm of the hand. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/13 "2003-11-08T17:28:19Z")
This is hardly anything new. There are already companies that make a sprayable fire retardent made out of a polymer gel similar to what is used in disposable diapers. It was used to protect a historic structure in the recent California wildfires. I saw a demostration on CNN (this week I think) that showed a blowtouch directed at a piece of plywood partially covered with the gel. The unprotected portion went up in flames while the protected portion was unscathed. They also showed a man holding a disposable diaper with a blowtorch directed at it. The secret seems to be the immense water holding ability of the gel. The idea came from a firefighter who noticed that the only thing unburned in a dumster fire was a used disposable diaper. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Anal\_Scurvy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@Anal\_Scurvy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anal_Scurvy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/14 "2003-11-08T21:14:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*Forget the heat paste – I want to know what the deal is with the anti-bear armor the article talks about. > > Let me say that again: _anti-bear armor_. WTF? > > And it looks like something straight out of anime sci-fi cartoons. \*\* The paste is real, I saw a special on it recently. I think on TLC. And for the armour… try to order Project Grizzly. It’s a Canadian documentary that is the funniest thing you’ll ever see. It follows this guy as he builds and perfects an armour to let him study what it’s like to be attacked by a grizzly bear, so it’s two hours of him being hit by cars, by logs, set on fire, and at one point he walks into a biker bar and calls everyone a fag. The man is a genius and he has some amazing adventures. I envy him. Buy the movie. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/15 "2003-11-09T01:57:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rsa \* > \*\*This is hardly anything new. There are already companies that make a sprayable fire retardent made out of a polymer gel similar to what is used in disposable diapers. It was used to protect a historic structure in the recent California wildfires. > > I saw a demostration on CNN (this week I think) that showed a blowtouch directed at a piece of plywood partially covered with the gel. The unprotected portion went up in flames while the protected portion was unscathed. They also showed a man holding a disposable diaper with a blowtorch directed at it. > \*\* I saw the same demo, but after watching the video on this stuff I don’t think its quite the same. Those spray gels are trapping water, and letting the evaporation of the water bleed off the heat. In many instances all you would need is a minute or two of fireproofing to stop or contain a house fire. Long haul, the water boils out and stuff burns. I would love to see paints with this material mixed into them somehow. A couple coats of paint able to withstand/repel 1500 degrees farenheit for a few minutes would probably do wonders for fire resistance. Maybe even heat loss. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/16 "2003-11-09T03:18:04Z")
Well I ain’t no rocketry scientist but I think he tipped his own and: quote: ## “The producer told me it was the most amazing thing he’d ever seen, that I could sit there for 10 minutes without getting my brain fried.” Hurtubise, 39, said. The 10 minute quip might mean it has a very limited time frame before it fails. Not sure why he mentioned the Space Shuttle unless it wears well under impact. ---
**Author:** ![ronbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@ronbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ronbo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/17 "2003-11-09T04:03:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\*So I have to coat my house with fire paste after every rain? \*\* I thinka lot of people could have benefited with a “spray on fireshield” this year (Billions of dollars worth). Especially if they could have it removed with the next rain. You really don’t need it after the fire danger is gone. Now someday,… ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/18 "2003-11-09T07:33:27Z")
Wow. Holy freakin’ wow. Attrayant, that link… Wow. We GOTTA hook this guy up with the segway dude… just imagine what they’d come up with! Seriously, someone set up the meeting and I’ll buy all three of you lunch. 10 minutes of direct blowtorch action at 3600 F, that’s pretty impressive. Ok, it’s not much use in long-term heat situations but for shuttle tiles or something, it’s perfect. And that wasn’t even cooked right, it was still gooey in the middle! Wow. Now, as for the bear suit… I saw a documentary about this a while back. Ok, it’s a good idea, but he takes it a little too far with the third version. On the video, you see the second and third prototypes he makes. The blue one is the second, the red-and-white one is the third. The blue one looks totally freakin’ cool… all furutistic, sleek and aerodynamic, and he could run around in it. It was flexible, like a suit of armor should be. And he could get hit by trucks and fall down hills and stuff in it. Safely, even! The third one? Uh… dude… it’s not a suit of armor, it’s a big steel box you can barely move in. I don’t care how tough the box is, if you can’t move, the bear is eventually going to get in to where you are! But man oh man, can it stop an ewok log attack! ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-paste-does-this-extraordinary-claim-have-extraordinary-proof/211904/19 "2003-11-09T13:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I remember seeing on TV the Shuttle tiles being heated up to white hot, and then someone holding them in their hand. The SHC was so high that the heat instantly dissipated, and they hardly conducted at all. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > \*\*I saw that too, it was simply amazing, one side of the tile was still red hot, and the other, about 2 centimeters appart was on the palm of the hand. :eek: \*\* I think two different properties of materials are being confused here. Specific heat capacity is not the same thing as heat conductance. The shuttle tiles are made of an insulative material that conducts heat very poorly. It’s not a matter of dissipating the heat. In fact, the only way for a material to quickly dissipate heat is to conduct it away, which is the opposite property from what we are talking about here. Specifically, **jjimm** , a material with high specific heat capacity does not quickly dissipate heat. It tends to retain heat.