# Fire the Federal Governement!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713 "2011-10-25T04:22:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/101 "2011-11-02T00:30:02Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > If there was any point to my rambling, it’s that the startup of any small business is so circumstantial, there’s only one ground rule: it’s risky and there are no guarantees. > > To ascribe generalized moral judgment as to whether or not to startup a small business in today’s economy is to be willfully ignorant. Or maybe just plain ignorant. > > The entrepreneur is going to need all the help they can get. It can be done without, but say… do you hear that? Those teeny, tiny violins the large corporations are playing that so woo the GOP. I certainly agree with you about the risks of startups. I may be over sensitive, but I seem to hear a lot of people saying things that sound like anyone not starting a business is not a true American and is just a wage slave. And of course that small businesses create all the jobs. Maybe so but an OpEd in the times (Tom Friedman?) said that small businesses also destroy the jobs when they go under. No one thinks about this because the big layoff gets the headlines, unlike that restaurant down the street which suddenly disappears. Also big companies layoffs happen all at once, hiring happens bit by bit without any headlines. These days you don’t even see fat help wanted sections in the newspapers as triggers. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/102 "2011-11-02T00:33:23Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Really? I thought it was because Clinton’s wife was still trying to give us free national healthcare, like they have in Canada How exactly do you think that trying and failing to change the healthcare system would turn a surplus into a deficit? ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/103 "2011-11-02T00:39:24Z")
Well, what I’m seeing is that the Corporations are destroying America. Listen, I’m not against capitalism, but I am against corporate greed. Small businesses have jobs, but at the same time, since consumers have no confidence, they can’t afford to hire more employees. Unless Obama waves some damn magic wand and makes all our problems go away, it won’t be such a holly-jolly Christmas this year. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/104 "2011-11-02T00:42:05Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > How exactly do you think that trying and failing to change the healthcare system would turn a surplus into a deficit? As near as I can tell, it takes a _lot_ of money to pay for every Citizen’s healthcare. Can you pay my medical bills? What about my sister’s, or my dad’s? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/105 "2011-11-02T00:44:04Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > As near as I can tell, it takes a _lot_ of money to pay for every Citizen’s healthcare. Can you pay my medical bills? What about my sister’s, or my dad’s? My point is that it _didn’t happen_. How can something that didn’t happen turn a surplus into a deficit? ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/106 "2011-11-02T00:46:41Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > My point is that it _didn’t happen_. How can something that didn’t happen turn a surplus into a deficit? Right. Well, I also think that we tried to allocate more spending to our infrastructure, and that was what did it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/107 "2011-11-02T01:53:41Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Right. Well, I also think that we tried to allocate more spending to our infrastructure, and that was what did it. Just keep throwing things out. Eventually something will stick. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/108 "2011-11-02T02:07:24Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Right. Well, I also think that we tried to allocate more spending to our infrastructure, and that was what did it. Is this the “flailing away” style of debate I’ve heard so much about? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/109 "2011-11-02T02:14:02Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Really? I thought it was because Clinton’s wife was still trying to give us free national healthcare, like they have in Canada No, you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Bosstrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstrain)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/110 "2011-11-02T02:20:56Z")
> [@MissesA](#): > > Fire the Federal Governement!!! Hear, hear! Let it be known that I second! Come up with a plan and I’ll follow. (I’m not a traitor, never will be, but the Founding Fathers were, so it can’t be that bad, can it? Something needs to happen, obviously the monkeys in charge can’t do shit…) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/111 "2011-11-02T03:53:58Z")
**RE: Universal Health Care** So, lemme get this straight… 1. At some point (or many points) in your life you will fall ill and will requite treatment, therapy, or might need emergency attention or surgery. 2. It’s a fantastic idea to provide health care. 3. It’s expensive. 4. To reduce getting hammered over the head with medical costs, health insurance companies come to the aid on the private market, by **pooling together large groups of healthy and ill people,** and turning a profit. 5. Now, due to a host of unchecked issues, insurance premiums are so expensive, it’s becoming a problem for the poor, self-employed and the general public to afford health insurance. Hospitals and doctors are screwed with bills that cannot be paid, and the premiums rise ever higher. 6. Since everybody is going to fall ill and/or need expensive operations and treatment at some or many points in their lives, everyone needs health care; what could be a **larger group than the entire nation?** 7. Say, how 'bout, one, robust, nation-wide health care system, through taxation, to be more efficient and offset or render moot many issues in healthcare costs, all the while taking out the middle-man (e.g. either the company pays the tax, instead of the insurance benefit, or instead of buying health insurance outright, you use that money toward taxation). 8. [_a blurry, bloody hullabaloo and wringing hands_] 9. Universal Health Care is a bust. What went wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/112 "2011-11-02T04:19:46Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > I’ll concede that Pubbies are making stupid decisions. After all, increasing supply in a time of low demand is surest way to financial ruin. Anyone care to re-educate me on the budget surplus we had prior to the Clinton administration, and how it suddenly turned into a budget deficit? Was this a mistake, or did you really think that Clinton turned a surplus into a deficit? Last time I checked, Clinton took office in 1993, when we had a deficit in the hundreds of billion, and left office in January 2001, when we had a surplus of over a hundred billion. [Cite](http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php). I you want to know what happened to it, well it sure wasn’t health care. As I understand it, it disappeared due to the Bush tax cuts and war spending. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/113 "2011-11-02T04:54:02Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Was this a mistake, or did you really think that Clinton turned a surplus into a deficit? Last time I checked, Clinton took office in 1993, when we had a deficit in the hundreds of billion, and left office in January 2001, when we had a surplus of over a hundred billion. [Cite](http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php). I you want to know what happened to it, well it sure wasn’t health care. As I understand it, it disappeared due to the Bush tax cuts and war spending. _dramatically squashes half-chewed cigar on the bar_ We don’t much like them there facts 'round here, pilgrim. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/114 "2011-11-02T13:26:21Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > did you really think Not so’s anyone could tell. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/115 "2011-11-03T01:29:59Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Was this a mistake, or did you really think that Clinton turned a surplus into a deficit? Last time I checked, Clinton took office in 1993, when we had a deficit in the hundreds of billion, and left office in January 2001, when we had a surplus of over a hundred billion. [Cite](http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php). I you want to know what happened to it, well it sure wasn’t health care. As I understand it, it disappeared due to the Bush tax cuts and war spending. ooops thanks for calling me out. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/116 "2011-11-03T02:20:43Z")
> [@MissesA](#): > > America needs change and I think we should just do away with the Federal Government period. They can’t be trusted any longer, its bad enough we have to watch our counties, and our states. I know this would brought up by our founding fathers, and its very appreciated. But its just not working anymore, we need like Obama says CHANGE. So I think all the states should just go their separate ways. What happens when you give someone to much power and authority/ It goes straight to their head and into Americans wallets. Yes .lets hire contractors. they will give you great service and save us lots and lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/117 "2011-11-03T02:40:27Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > ooops thanks for calling me out. Wait, you were serious about that? I thought you were trying to be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/118 "2011-11-03T02:53:09Z")
Overturn Wickard v. Filburn!!! Seriously, it’s bad law. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/119 "2011-11-03T04:14:22Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Overturn Wickard v. Filburn!!! > > Seriously, it’s bad law. [Hm?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn) > [@](#): > > The Supreme Court has since relied heavily on Filburn in upholding the power of the federal government to prosecute individuals who grow their own medicinal marijuana pursuant to state law. . . . Ah. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713/120 "2011-11-03T13:47:25Z")
Well, when I said that it’s bad law, I meant that I think the court simply did a poor legal analysis of the issue, not that the results are bad. Of course, the results are (mostly) bad - the medical marijuana wasn’t my focus, but it is an example of how the misguided interpretation in the ruling has led to the federal gov exerting more power than what was intitally (or at least, via an unintended method). The thing is, reasonable people can disagree over the outcomes - and that’s fine - but that doesn’t change the fact that the legal analysis that the court performed was pretty shoddy, and we’ve built a lot of legal precedent on that shaky foundation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-the-federal-governement/600713.md?page=7)