# Firearm/Caliber Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960 "2018-03-21T13:27:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/1 "2018-03-21T13:27:08Z")
I’m aware of revolvers and rifles being chambered in .44 Magnum, but not pistols. Has any manufacturer ever made a .44 semi-automatic pistol? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/2 "2018-03-21T13:28:10Z")
[Desert Eagle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Desert_Eagle) ETA: [AutoMag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoMag_(pistol)) This did not use the revolver round but a version made from a cut down .308 Winchester case. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/3 "2018-03-21T13:53:18Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I’m aware of revolvers and rifles being chambered in .44 Magnum, but not pistols. Has any manufacturer ever made a .44 semi-automatic pistol? If not, why not? **running coach** gave you examples of a couple, but they’re rare largely because revolvers use rimmed cases which are harder to stack and feed from a box magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/4 "2018-03-21T14:29:23Z")
The ‘why not’ is that it’s a lot harder to feed rimmed cartridges from a detachable magazine than non-rimmed, and .44 Magnum is a rimmed cartridge, so it’s hard to make that kind of gun. There also isn’t a whole lot of demand for them since the main use of high powered pistol rounds is hunting and certain target shooting, where revolvers and break-open guns work well. Desert Eagle has made one basically as a gimmick for people who particularly want a .44 Magnum pistol. The reason people don’t just make a rimless .44 magnum round is that the name isn’t just for the caliber, it’s for the entire cartridge. If you made a rimless version, it would get a new name, like the .44 Automag that running coach linked. (Also FYI a .44 magnum round isn’t actually .44 inches in diameter). ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/5 "2018-03-21T15:22:41Z")
besides, if you’re going to spend almost 2 grand for a Desert Eagle, might as well go whole-hog and get the .50 AE 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/6 "2018-03-21T16:10:37Z")
It is also very difficult to build a reasonable sized pistol that can handle the pressures and slide velocity of a round with the power of a .44 Magnum. The Desert Eagle is a monster of a pistol weighing in at nearly four pounds unloaded and uses a gas piston system which makes it mechanically complex. The original AMP Auto Mag pistol used a rotating captured bolt with a short recoil action that took nearly heroic effort to manually cycle; it was featured in a number of films in the ‘Eighties and is a valued collectable, but not much of a practical shooter. The LAR Grizzly Win Mag was a 1911-style pistol which had an interchangeable chambering which included .44 Magnum. I have never seen one in person but it had a reputation for short life before experiencing frame and rail cracking. Although it is not chambered for the .44 Magnum per se, the AMT Automag IV in .45 Winchester Magnum is probably the most practical and modern weapon chambered for something in the power range of the .44 Magnum (slightly lower velocity but more muzzle energy and momentum), and aside from the long slide was a conventional Browing-style tilting barrel lockup with short recoil action. I have seen and handled (but not fired) one, and while it might be practical as a pistol for hunting large game it is far too unwieldy as a service pistol. The most powerful standard caliber found in service pistol chamberings is the 10mm Auto, and it is very aggressive even in a full sized all-steel framed pistol. The Colt Delta Elite and the S&W 10XX series pistols were noted for frame cracking after just a couple thousand full power rounds. (S&W eventually fixed the problem by beefing up areas, and Colt stopped producing pistols in 10mm Auto.) As a former Force Recon sniper who taught me to shoot told me, “A pistol is a gun you use to fight your way to a better gun or an exit.” I’d much prefer to drink whiskey and read Blake, but those words have stuck with me and I’ve never been much impressed by arguments over best stopping power or greatest magazine capacity in any pistol. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/7 "2018-03-21T16:50:16Z")
**SoaT** , you never cease to amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/8 "2018-03-21T19:42:43Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The most powerful standard caliber found in service pistol chamberings is the 10mm Auto, and it is very aggressive even in a full sized all-steel framed pistol. The Colt Delta Elite and the S&W 10XX series pistols were noted for frame cracking after just a couple thousand full power rounds. (S&W eventually fixed the problem by beefing up areas, and Colt stopped producing pistols in 10mm Auto.) > > As a former Force Recon sniper who taught me to shoot told me, “A pistol is a gun you use to fight your way to a better gun or an exit.” I’d much prefer to drink whiskey and read Blake, but those words have stuck with me and I’ve never been much impressed by arguments over best stopping power or greatest magazine capacity in any pistol. Good post. I dont really see a need for much pistol power past a .45 auto or .357 mag. . I did see a revolver chambered in .22 hornet, that was intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/9 "2018-03-21T20:02:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont really see a need for much pistol power past a .45 auto or .357 mag. Anything with much more momentum than a .357 Magnum or 10mm Auto isn’t really managable in a service-sized revolver or pistol. The .44 Mangum was designed specifically for hunting, and having Clint Eastwood carry A 6” barrel Model 29 it in the _Dirty Harry_ films was supposed to show what an over-the-top, exaggerated figure he was. (Even with Eastwood’s lanky frame that is impossible to conceal and in most scenes where he doesn’t show or use the gun he actually isn’t carrying it. I’ve fired the Model 629 with a three inch “Alaskan Guide” barrel and to call it punishing is an understatement; I literally thought I was going to have a nosebleed from the muzzle blast. An autoloading pistol will absorb and mediate some of the recoil by dint of cycling the slide but even a massive pistol like a Desert Eagle is not fun to shoot in .44 Magnum for more than a single magazine. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/10 "2018-03-21T20:09:42Z")
I have a Ruger bolt-action rifle (77/44) in .44 Magnum, and the thing kicks hard enough I can’t imagine how one could manage firing it out of a revolver. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/11 "2018-03-22T02:44:04Z")
I have two lever action rifles. My Marlin 1894 is chambered in .44 Magnum, my Winchester in .45 Long Colt. As you would expect, and despite the cartridges being about the same overall size the Marlin has more kick. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/12 "2018-03-22T03:27:32Z")
What you have to remember is that while Harry _carried_ a .44 Magnum, he didn’t fire full magnum rounds through it. In _Magnum Force_ (I believe) he talks with David Soul about the loading he uses, and it isn’t a full load. More like a hot .44 Special load, which isn’t that bad. I own a .44 Special with a 4 inch barrel, and while sharp it is very manageable. [Cite.](Back to the Model 29: in 1971, a young San Francisco police inspector named Harry Callahan first appeared on the silver screen in Dirty Harry. We learned early on that Inspector Callahan got his nickname from not playing nice with criminals. While other police settled for .38 Special revolvers, the N-frame Model 29 Smith & Wesson was what Inspector #2211 carried, albeit loaded with light .44 Special cartridges.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/13 "2018-03-22T03:32:14Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > What you have to remember is that while Harry _carried_ a .44 Magnum, he didn’t fire full magnum rounds through it. In _Sudden Impact_ (I believe) he talks with David Soul about the loading he uses, and it isn’t a full load. More like a hot .44 Special load, which isn’t that bad. I own a .44 Special with a 4 inch barrel, and while sharp it is very manageable. > > [Cite.](Back to the Model 29: in 1971, a young San Francisco police inspector named Harry Callahan first appeared on the silver screen in Dirty Harry. We learned early on that Inspector Callahan got his nickname from not playing nice with criminals. While other police settled for .38 Special revolvers, the N-frame Model 29 Smith & Wesson was what Inspector #2211 carried, albeit loaded with **light .44 Special cartridges.** ) [Magnum Force](https://youtu.be/Gs8AqzN9Ga4?t=64). ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/14 "2018-03-22T13:45:39Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I have two lever action rifles. My Marlin 1894 is chambered in .44 Magnum, my Winchester in .45 Long Colt. As you would expect, and despite the cartridges being about the same overall size the Marlin has more kick. .45 LC was originally designed for black powder firearms, and a lot of the guns that fire it can’t take very hot loads. So just about any commercial ammo you buy in .45LC will be low-power enough that it won’t destroy the older guns. It’s possible to load .45LC cartridges to have similar performance to .44 Magnum (and you’d probably get about the same kick), you just don’t want to use those rounds in anything that’s not designed for it. .44 Magnum doesn’t have this issue because it was made as a high powered round from the start, so there’s no body of (often collectible) firearms that expect it to be lighter than it is. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/15 "2018-03-25T18:05:33Z")
Kind of reminds me of the [Colt Walker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Walker) during the black powder era: A little too much gun. Captain Samuel Walker of the Texas Rangers wanted a big pistol, and he got one, but… > [@](#): > > In addition to its large size and weight, problems with the Walker included ruptured cylinders after firing. This has been attributed to primitive metallurgy, soldiers allowing powder to spill across the mouths of the chambers, and even loading the original conical bullets backwards into the chambers. Under 300 of the original 1,000 were returned for repair due to a ruptured cylinder. Lard was loaded into the mouths of the cylinders on top of each bullet after loading to prevent the spark from igniting all chambers at once, a practice which continues to this day among black-powder revolver shooters, and although each chamber held 60 grains of powder, Colt recommended no more than 50 grains in each. > > The Walker had an inadequate loading lever catch that often allowed the loading lever to drop during recoil, preventing fast follow-up shots. Period-correct fixes for this often included placing a rawhide loop around both the barrel and loading lever, to prevent the loading lever from dropping under recoil and locking the action. I found on Youtube some years ago a video of a Walker being fired. I don’t know what load he was using but, true to form, the loading lever would drop about every other shot. These issues led to development of the Colt Dragoon and Colt Army which were more reasonable. Two of the four pistols Clint Eastwood carried in _The Outlaw Josey Wales_ were Walkers. Maybe Josie was Harry’s great-grandfather. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Mills](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@Mister\_Mills](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Mills)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearm-caliber-question/810960/16 "2018-03-25T18:33:30Z")
Progress happened in the form of the .50 AE, which is a pretty good auto pistol round. It carries 1,500 foot pounds of energy in a standard loading, but it is a big and heavy gun. The .44 Mag never worked well in an auto, and after the .50 came out, it seems pointless to pursue a .44 Magnum auto. The .50 dinosaured that idea, most likely.