# “Firearms are now the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 24.” How many of these are gang related? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744 "2022-06-06T13:22:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/1 "2022-06-06T13:22:08Z")
The quote comes from this speech: [https://piedmontexedra.com/2022/06/former-u-s-ambassador-to-australia-jeff-bleich-delivers-phs-commencement-speech-on-courage-in-difficult-times?unapproved=4631&moderation-hash=e6724e6490a2e9e5f47211f192f3ca4b#comment-4631](https://piedmontexedra.com/2022/06/former-u-s-ambassador-to-australia-jeff-bleich-delivers-phs-commencement-speech-on-courage-in-difficult-times?unapproved=4631&moderation-hash=e6724e6490a2e9e5f47211f192f3ca4b#comment-4631) I am accepting the quote as factual, but of these firearm deaths for ages 0 to 24, how many are gang related? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/2 "2022-06-06T13:32:15Z")
Can I ask why that would matter and also for a definition of gang related? Is a child hit by a stray round from two criminals shooting count as a gang death? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/3 "2022-06-06T13:38:40Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Can I ask why that would matter … This is FQ. That would be a discussion for another forum. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/4 "2022-06-06T13:41:36Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Can I ask why that would matter and also for a definition of gang related? Is a child hit by a stray round from two criminals shooting count as a gang death? Okay yes I will include collateral damages. I think gang related is self explanatory, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/5 "2022-06-06T13:41:50Z")
This [site](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) has some interesting stats. More than 50% of gun-related deaths are suicide, but I don’t know how that breaks down by age. However, suicide is a major cause of death for younger people. So, potentially, less than half of those gun-related deaths are not suicide. Of those, I imagine there are a lot of gang-related deaths, but I can’t find the stats. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/6 "2022-06-06T13:45:54Z")
No, it’s not, which is why I asked. And I think why it matters is relevant too. Because there seems to be an attitude that black kids killed on the streets of Chicago by crossfire don’t count somehow. A dead kid is a dead kid. If you can’t define what you mean by gang related, then there isn’t any way to provide meaningful data. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/7 "2022-06-06T13:46:53Z")
OK, that same site says that 59% of gun murders use a handgun, and 36% were “type not stated.” Let’s guess that half of the type not stated were handguns, and I imagine most gang-related deaths use handguns. Assuming suicides are at least 51%, then among the 49%, 78% of those are handguns, maybe, and maybe 70% of those are gang related? So, maybe 25% are gang related?? That’s a pretty rough estimate. However, I feel comfortable stating that less than 50% are gang-related, given the high rate of suicides and the high use of suicides by gun. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/8 "2022-06-06T13:48:25Z")
Would you count the LAPD (_is it the LAPD or the sheriff, I can’t remember_) operating as a gang? They meet pretty much all the same criteria? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/9 "2022-06-06T13:49:44Z")
I’m not a mod or anything, but it seems like a lot of these answers aren’t really FQ answers. Anyway, I doubt LAPD contributes a significant number of the nationwide youth deaths due to firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/10 "2022-06-06T13:51:32Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I doubt LAPD contributes a significant number of the nationwide youth deaths due to firearms. This goes to the definition of gang. The OP stated that they felt the definition was obvious, but I don’t think it is. And it will have huge impact on the statistics. The LAPD by itself won’t change the numbers too much, but clarifying the definition of gang violence will. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/11 "2022-06-06T13:52:20Z")
In the world of crime statistics, I don’t believe anyone defines the LAPD as a gang. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/12 "2022-06-06T13:53:44Z")
[How about the LA Sherriffs Dept?](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/25/1088905429/lasd-gangs-investigation-los-angeles) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/13 "2022-06-06T13:54:14Z")
In the world of crime statistics, I don’t believe anyone defines the LASD as a gang. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/14 "2022-06-06T13:55:47Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > In the world of crime statistics, I don’t believe anyone defines the LAPD as a gang. There were literal gangs operating within the LASD (thank you **TriPolar** ). My understanding is that by any reasonable outside observer, they would be characterized as gangs. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > In the world of crime statistics, I don’t believe anyone defines the LASD as a gang. But they _were_ a gang. And so while we are in FQ this becomes necessary to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/15 "2022-06-06T13:57:13Z")
---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/16 "2022-06-06T13:58:59Z")
With 4 flags in almost no time at all. I’m closing this thread until a FQ mod can sort it all out. The thread will reopen later. This is FQ for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firearms-are-now-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-americans-under-the-age-of-24-how-many-of-these-are-gang-related/965744/17 "2022-06-06T14:21:33Z")
[Moderating] The question does depend inherently on precisely how “gang” and “gang-related” are defined, and the definitions of both of those terms are going to be inherently political. This thread will remain closed; feel free to start a new thread either here, with a clear and explicit definition of terms in the OP, or in Great Debates, where users can debate what definitions ought to be used.