# Fired U.S. attorney says the orders came from Bush himself. (But how does he know?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430 "2007-08-29T22:56:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/41 "2007-08-30T20:03:56Z")
Sure would, **Tom**! There’s been a spot of bother with that, getting the straight story from persons with selective amnesia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/42 "2007-08-31T04:28:57Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Seems to have. It is still pretty easy to find people who think that Ollie North was a rogue who had no connection to the administration. [/QUOTE] :mad: :mad: :mad: I don’t care if he’s dead! **IMPEACH REAGAN!!!** ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/43 "2007-08-31T04:40:55Z")
The most perfectly programmed animatronic robot ever. He hit his marks and said his lines every time. Hit “sincere” and he looks you right in the eye and tells you shit is better than ice cream and you throw out your ice cream. Hit “stern and determined” and you would swear he could march nose first through a brick wall. Hit “avuncular” and he’s your favorite uncle, telling you that, no, he didn’t finger your little sister, he would never do anything like that, and you know he did, and you hate his guts for it, and he’s still your favorite uncle. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/44 "2007-08-31T06:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] The most perfectly programmed animatronic robot ever. He hit his marks and said his lines every time. Hit “sincere” and he looks you right in the eye and tells you shit is better than ice cream and you throw out your ice cream. Hit “stern and determined” and you would swear he could march nose first through a brick wall. Hit “avuncular” and he’s your favorite uncle, telling you that, no, he didn’t finger your little sister, he would never do anything like that, and you know he did, and you hate his guts for it, and he’s still your favorite uncle. [/QUOTE] I presume you are describing Reagan? The current president could not persuade me he liked ice cream if he looked up from shoving his face into a bowl of it with a big, goofy, cream-smeared smile on his face. I rarely believed Reagan, but I cannot even use the verisimilitude I invoke to follow a Jackie Chan movie to pretend to believe Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/45 "2007-08-31T09:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] … verisimilitude … [/QUOTE] word … not … means &etc. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/46 "2007-08-31T09:48:27Z")
Yeah it does. The author of a fictive work must invoke verisimilitude to encourage the audience to put aside their rational reaction to that which is not real. Similarly, the audience must invoke that part of the brain that responds to such langauge so that they may partake of the fiction. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/47 "2007-08-31T16:01:00Z")
“Truthiness” On a related note, this from _Talking Points Memo_, regarding the politicization of the DoJ and the effort by the Bushiviks to get more “real Americans” on board. You know, the “right sort” of people… [http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004042.php#more](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004042.php#more) Teasers: > [@](#): > > Do you believe in God? Are you gay? Have you cheated on your spouse? What’s your position on abortion? Should gays be allowed to marry? Have you contributed to Republican candidates? What kind of conservative are you? > > Welcome to Bush’s Department of Justice. Those are just some of the questions that investigators think may have been asked during interviews for both career and political positions at the Department over the past three years… Damn, but this shit pisses me off! So far, the operative word is “may have been asked”, so place your bets. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/48 "2007-08-31T16:07:29Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] “Truthiness” On a related note, this from _Talking Points Memo_, regarding the politicization of the DoJ and the effort by the Bushiviks to get more “real Americans” on board. You know, the “right sort” of people… [http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004042.php#more](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004042.php#more) Teasers: Damn, but this shit pisses me off! So far, the operative word is “may have been asked”, so place your bets. [/QUOTE] Well, at least all that is being [looked into.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/30/AR2007083000995.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/49 "2007-08-31T16:51:32Z")
You’re right, that’s the least. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/50 "2007-08-31T16:53:52Z")
By ‘top men’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/51 "2007-08-31T18:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] By ‘top men’. [/QUOTE] And, as we all know, it’s not gay if you’re the top! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/52 "2007-09-01T13:27:22Z")
**tomndeb** , thank you for writing out that summary of the scandal, your shorthand version answered a lot of questions for me. I should’ve thanked you before instead of just teasing. ---
**Author:** ![b\_wad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@b\_wad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/b_wad)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/53 "2007-09-03T09:39:58Z")
How many justices did clinton fire ? was it 96 ? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/54 "2007-09-03T09:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=b\_wad] How many justices did clinton fire ? was it 96 ? [/QUOTE] Nope, even your implication was debunked a long time ago, the problem now was that the current firings took place in the **second** term of the administration. [http://mediamatters.org/items/200703160009](http://mediamatters.org/items/200703160009) > [@](#): > > Several media outlets have compared the Bush administration’s controversial dismissals of eight U.S. attorneys to President Clinton’s dismissal of almost all U.S. attorneys upon taking office in 1993. Clinton’s firing of the prosecutors was highlighted March 13 at [Drudgereport.com](http://Drudgereport.com), the website of Internet gossip Matt Drudge. Over the next 24 hours, several media outlets – including Fox News, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Times, and MSNBC – echoed the unfounded comparison between the Clinton and Bush dismissals. > > In fact, while both Clinton and Bush dismissed nearly all U.S. attorneys upon taking office following an administration of the opposite party, The Washington Post reported in a March 14 article that “legal experts and former prosecutors say the firing of a large number of prosecutors in the middle of a term appears to be unprecedented and threatens the independence of prosecutors.” > > A March 13 McClatchy Newspapers article – headlined “Current situation is distinct from Clinton firings of U.S. attorneys” – further noted that “[m]ass firings of U.S. attorneys are fairly common when a new president takes office, but not in a second-term administration.” The article added that “Justice Department officials acknowledged it would be unusual for the president to oust his own appointees.” ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/55 "2007-09-03T13:22:14Z")
[Findlaw : Michael Dorf](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20070829.html) > [@](#): > > …Much of the public debate regarding the U.S. Attorney firings has involved Bush/Gonzales defenders attacking arguments that well-informed critics have not made. The apologists argue–correctly but irrelevantly–that U.S. Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, and thus can be fired at any time. They argue–again correctly but irrelevantly–that the President and Attorney General are entitled to set the policy agenda for U.S. Attorneys. > > These arguments are irrelevant because the heart of the firing scandal involves the allegation that U.S. Attorneys were fired because they refused to use the nation’s law enforcement resources to target Democrats disproportionately to Republicans… > > **More importantly, if the allegation is true, that would represent a gross misuse of office. It is perfectly acceptable for Republicans and Democrats to have different law enforcement priorities. As I explained in an earlier column, however, it is completely unacceptable for a Democratic administration to distort those priorities by disproportionately targeting Republicans–or vice-versa–for partisan advantage.** (my emphasis) ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430/56 "2007-09-03T13:43:57Z")
[QUOTE=b\_wad] How many justices did clinton fire ? was it 96 ? [/QUOTE] I think the figure you want is zero. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fired-u-s-attorney-says-the-orders-came-from-bush-himself-but-how-does-he-know/417430.md?page=2)