# Firefly movie: Bad for Angel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496 "2004-03-10T15:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/1 "2004-03-10T15:50:39Z")
I saw in EW this week that Joss Whedon has the go ahead and a 35mill+ budget to make a big screen Firefly movie. Do you think this will make him fight less to get Angel on somewhere else? I hope not. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/2 "2004-03-10T16:07:17Z")
For all that I love Firefly, I think that Joss failed to “finish” Buffy properly before moving on to do that third TV project. Yes, Firefly was a fresh premise, a wonderful execution, and had the potential to be absolutely awesome if it had gone for another season or two (Buffy and Angel both arguably peaked in their third seasons), but I think Buffy fans are all aware of how the show went _waaaaaay_ downhill when Joss didn’t help as much. Given that Joss’ involvement in Angel has already wound down, I don’t think I’d _want_ to see Angel jump networks (especially to Fox, those ungrateful forking ice-holes) and undergo a Buffy-like descent into sub-mediocrity. I also don’t want to risk Marti Noxon (or anyone like her, curse her name) coming on board again to use Joss’ characters as puppets for her own personal frustrations. If she wants to work out her “issues” on TV, she can bloody well go see Doctor Sodding Phil. Thank you, that is all. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/3 "2004-03-10T17:29:33Z")
I guess I’m in the minority in that while I agree that the last two seasons of Buffy were in general the weakest I don’t think they were the festering pits of stink that many others seem to believe they are. There was a lot of room for improvement, especially in S7, and I was here with the best of them bitching about the dumb stuff but on the whole I’m willing to put up with some clunky episodes and storylines if in exchange I get episodes like “Selfless,” “Him,” “Conversations With Dead People,” “Get It Done,” “Storyteller” and “Lies My Parents Told Me.” I also didn’t hate Kennedy with a passion (I know, blasphemy, so sue me). In the same vein, I’m willing to wager that UPN (or wherever) _Angel_ would on the whole be better than no _Angel_ at all. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/4 "2004-03-10T18:06:42Z")
And even substandard _Buffy_ was better than 99% of the other crap on the airwaves. _Angel_ needs to continue, wherever and however necessary. At least Joss had an inkling of cancellation, so he was planning an “ending” all along. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/5 "2004-03-10T19:20:37Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > if in exchange I get episodes like “Selfless,” “Him,” I just saw a rerun of “Him” on FX a couple weeks ago – man, was it good. Not only are there a million hilarious lines (“Y’know, I’m almost just like a student – except for the sexual experience and stuff”), the twist (Dawn’s plan) was logical and believeable, and the performances were fantastic. That Michelle Trachtenberg doesn’t have a pilot of her own by now makes me despair for the future of television. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/6 "2004-03-10T19:35:40Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > Given that Joss’ involvement in Angel has already wound down, I don’t think I’d _want_ to see Angel jump networks (especially to Fox, those ungrateful forking ice-holes) and undergo a Buffy-like descent into sub-mediocrity. > > I also don’t want to risk Marti Noxon (or anyone like her, curse her name) coming on board again to use Joss’ characters as puppets for her own personal frustrations. If she wants to work out her “issues” on TV, she can bloody well go see Doctor Sodding Phil. > > Thank you, that is all. Well, I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Jeff Bell (formerly of the X-Files) and David Fury are fine exec producers, and Bell is a great show runner. The thing is, they don’t _need_ Joss. They’re fully competent to take care of Angel, and they have an exceptionally strong writing team. I mean, De Knight (Dead Things, Seeing Red, and most recently Shells), Goddard (Helpless, Lies My Parents Told Me, and he has a hand in nearly every episode of Angel this season) Fury (You’re Welcome, Destiny…) Edlund (Puppet!Angel! Also wrote for the Tick). A few people I’m forgetting. With a team like that, there just isn’t the need for Joss to be there all the time. He’s only written two episodes this season and they weren’t even the strongest. Furthermore, Noxon will not be returning to ME. She has her own show, and her own deal with FOX (though for the life of me, I can’t remember what it’s called.) Noxon isn’t going to be a showrunner ever, ever again, so you can relax. Finally, there are rumors that allof the negative attention the WB has been receiving from the press and fan campaigns over cancelling Angel has prompted “talks” to start. _shrug_ I don’t know if anything will come of that. I do know that UPN will not be buying Angel, and that FOX definitely won’t be taking it on. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/7 "2004-03-10T19:51:40Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Edlund (Puppet!Angel! Also wrote for the Tick). Sorry, just gotta jump in here… Ben Edlund, while he did write and produce for _The Tick_ and _Firefly_… is in fact the **creator** of The Tick. The comic book that started all the various Tick-properties. Just thought I’d throw that in. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/8 "2004-03-11T03:10:44Z")
Ooops, my bad…Every time I read something about Ben, it would say “Edlund (The Tick) blah blah blah”. I didn’t know the story behind that, so I just assumed they meant he was just a writer… ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/9 "2004-03-11T03:38:20Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I just saw a rerun of “Him” on FX a couple weeks ago – man, was it good. Not only are there a million hilarious lines (“Y’know, I’m almost just like a student – except for the sexual experience and stuff”), the twist (Dawn’s plan) was logical and believeable, and the performances were fantastic. That Michelle Trachtenberg doesn’t have a pilot of her own by now makes me despair for the future of television. I believe she provides some of the T&A for Eurotrip. I can’t believe she’s all growed up now. What’s the story about Marti Noxon and her personal issues? I’m not big on the whole behind the scenes thing, so I don’t know what this is about. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/10 "2004-03-11T03:45:47Z")
Marti is working on [Point Pleasant](http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/gofuton.cgi?action=showatch&id=point_pleasant). ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/11 "2004-03-11T05:33:10Z")
> [@Sinungaling](#): > > I believe she provides some of the T&A for Eurotrip. I can’t believe she’s all growed up now. > > What’s the story about Marti Noxon and her personal issues? I’m not big on the whole behind the scenes thing, so I don’t know what this is about. She wanted to write S6 BtVS to sort of resemble the wackiness of early 20-something life—HER wacky early 20-something life. And she was involved in a bad relationship. So she decided to write Spike as the “bad boyfriend”. And Willow had a drug addiction because wacky 20 somethings (read: HER) had a drug problem. And she tried to rape her boyfriend and so Spike tried to rape Buffy. (Marti admitted as much, and JM said it was based on a writer’s experience and was trying to be all coy and vague and let slip it was Marti…) ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/12 "2004-03-11T13:15:06Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > She wanted to write S6 BtVS to sort of resemble the wackiness of early 20-something life—HER wacky early 20-something life. And she was involved in a bad relationship. So she decided to write Spike as the “bad boyfriend”. And Willow had a drug addiction because wacky 20 somethings (read: HER) had a drug problem. > > And she tried to rape her boyfriend and so Spike tried to rape Buffy. (Marti admitted as much, and JM said it was based on a writer’s experience and was trying to be all coy and vague and let slip it was Marti…) Interesting… I did not know that. For me, the only good things to come out of S6 were the Musical Episode, the Nerds of Doom, and Xander got to save the world all by his lonesome. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/13 "2004-03-11T13:41:00Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Finally, there are rumors that allof the negative attention the WB has been receiving from the press and fan campaigns over cancelling Angel has prompted “talks” to start. _shrug_ I don’t know if anything will come of that. I do know that UPN will not be buying Angel, and that FOX definitely won’t be taking it on. Are you referring to [this](http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/497/497206p1.html?fromint=1)? Or have you heard something else too? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/14 "2004-03-11T16:47:09Z")
> [@Fiver](#): > > Are you referring to [this](http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/497/497206p1.html?fromint=1)? > > Or have you heard something else too? Yeah, that’s what all my pathetic false hopes are hinging on. Also, if anybody cares, the “PLEASE SAVE OUR GODDAMNED SHOW!” (except they’re phrased nicer) ads will be in the March 9 Hollywood Reporter and March 15 Variety. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/15 "2004-03-11T20:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Other posts have suggested that the WB is going to be taking a close look at the ratings for upcoming episodes, including the repeats. One complaint from the network is that the repeats tend to suffer in the ratings and an increase may make it easier for the network to reverse their decision. WHAT REPEATS? Angel’s being pre-empted by Smallville reruns for the next month. That being bellowed, does anyone know offhand if any shows have done well after swapping networks? How many have been changed, how many lasted more than one season, that sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/16 "2004-03-11T22:33:41Z")
Well, _Saved By The Bell_ started off on IIRC Disney (as _Our Miss Bliss_, a vehicle for Hayley Mills). It was canceled and moved to NBC and was quite successful. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/17 "2004-03-11T23:09:33Z")
From [Entertainment Weekly](http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,597970_3_0_,00.html) > [@](#): > > ‘‘Designing Women’’ is the classic example of a show that was saved from cancellation by mobilized fans – in fact, it was one of the first shows championed by a group called Viewers for Quality Television, which helped support other endangered shows like ‘‘Beauty and the Beast,’’ ‘‘Cagney & Lacey,’’ and ‘‘Party of Five.’’ Usually networks lose faith in a show and don’t respond to viewer pleas, but that doesn’t stop competing networks. NBC canceled ‘‘The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd’’ in 1988, but the Lifetime network heard fans’ pleas and picked it up for another two seasons. NBC yanked ‘‘JAG’’ in '96, yet CBS took it on with great success. Even that trash-TV classic ‘‘Baywatch,’’ beached by NBC after one season, inflated in syndication for another decade. As for ‘‘Angel,’’ I hear you, Diane – and hey, UPN, I’m getting tons of mail hoping ‘‘Angel’’ can be resurrected. (Viewer campaigns have also started at [savingangel.org](http://savingangel.org)…) ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-movie-bad-for-angel/233496/18 "2004-03-12T05:39:45Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > She wanted to write S6 BtVS to sort of resemble the wackiness of early 20-something life—HER wacky early 20-something life. And she was involved in a bad relationship. So she decided to write Spike as the “bad boyfriend”. And Willow had a drug addiction because wacky 20 somethings (read: HER) had a drug problem. > > And she tried to rape her boyfriend and so Spike tried to rape Buffy. (Marti admitted as much, and JM said it was based on a writer’s experience and was trying to be all coy and vague and let slip it was Marti…) Wow, someone had issues. But that was no reason to write crappy episodes.