# FIREFLY question: where did the image of River in a box come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 22, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670 "2012-02-22T22:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/1 "2012-02-22T22:01:32Z")
We did a FIREFLY marathon over the last few nights. In the pilot episode, River Tam first appears naked and in suspended animation. It’s a very striking image and I seem to recall it being similar to something I saw in a anime movie, but I can’t recall the name. Anybody know? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/2 "2012-02-22T22:07:36Z")
I don’t know the answer, but I’m just waiting for this thread and “Canned Star Trek cast members” to end up as sequential threads. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/3 "2012-02-22T22:17:57Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > We did a FIREFLY marathon over the last few nights. In the pilot episode, River Tam first appears naked and in suspended animation. It’s a very striking image and I seem to recall it being similar to something I saw in a anime movie, but I can’t recall the name. Anybody know? When Simon first joined the crew/got passage, he brought along a box - in the box there was River. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/4 "2012-02-22T22:35:33Z")
_Cowboy Bebop_ It’s from the episode where they first find ein, the data dog. He is in a box that looked exactly like a smaller version of River’s box. I’m on my phone or I’d try to find an image. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/5 "2012-02-22T22:36:54Z")
No. Not Bebop. Outlaw Star has the same image of Melphina. But Whedon never saw it and claimed it’s just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/6 "2012-02-22T22:39:15Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No. Not Bebop. > Outlaw Star has the same image of Melphina. > But Whedon never saw it and claimed it’s just a coincidence. I haven’t seen Outlaw star, so it may be there, but Ein’s box in Bebop really looks exactly like River’s. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/7 "2012-02-22T22:56:48Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I haven’t seen Outlaw star, so it may be there, but Ein’s box in Bebop really looks exactly like River’s. Ein is in a suitcase. And when they open it up he’s just sitting on some bedding, not curled up in a fetal position. I don’t really see how its very close to the River scene. ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/8 "2012-02-22T23:00:59Z")
[Comparison…](http://cheezburger.com/Sapphire16/lolz/View/1934587648) ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/9 "2012-02-22T23:02:12Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No. Not Bebop. > Outlaw Star has the same image of Melphina. > But Whedon never saw it and claimed it’s just a coincidence. Thank you. Here is the picture from Outlaw Star: [![](https://www.angelfire.com/anime2/ols/screencaps/2/3melfina.JPG) ](https://www.angelfire.com/anime2/ols/screencaps/2/3melfina.JPG) It is not as similar to the River Tam image as I thought. [http://summerglauphotos.fanfusion.org/gallery/albums/162522/9284176.png](http://summerglauphotos.fanfusion.org/gallery/albums/162522/9284176.png) Very striking though. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/10 "2012-02-23T03:00:28Z")
> [@Iggins](#): > > [Comparison…](http://cheezburger.com/Sapphire16/lolz/View/1934587648) It’s important to note that’s the censored version. In the original she’s naked just River. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/11 "2012-02-23T03:09:10Z")
There’s a better pic (if a bit smaller) half way through [this](http://www.coolinfographics.com/blog/tag/firefly). The resemblance really is striking. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/12 "2012-02-23T03:24:54Z")
They’re both curled up in a foetal position. It’s quite a natural position and one used for obvious symbolic reasons. The boxes don’t look very similar. I’d put it down to pure coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/13 "2012-02-23T03:52:51Z")
Whether or not it is a coincidence, I think you’re giving short shrift to the similarities. I mean, how many other images are you aware of with a naked teenage girl in suspended animation sleeping in a trunk/box? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/14 "2012-02-23T05:16:48Z")
Wasn’t there a movie, Boxing Helena, that had that image? That’s what I thought of when I saw the Firefly scene, but I’ve never seen that movie–just the ads. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/15 "2012-02-25T15:31:20Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s important to note that’s the censored version. In the original she’s naked just River. I’ll be in ma bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/16 "2012-02-25T16:37:32Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No. Not Bebop. > Outlaw Star has the same image of Melphina. > But Whedon never saw it and claimed it’s just a coincidence. And he also could be lying. I remember when both came out, and that the inital draw for me to Firefly was it’s similarities to the anime. Outlaw Star was popular enough to make it over to the states and be aired on a cable network. And Firefly must’ve come out at least two years after Outlaw Star. Yeah it could be a genuine coincidence. Or it’s not, but Whedon had nothing to do with it. I don’t remember if CN’s parent company owned the one that aired Firefly, but they could’ve decided the premise was good, had a licensing proposal for a similar show on their desk, and use the anime to test the market waters before greenlighting Whedon’s show. Or maybe none of the above. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/17 "2012-02-25T21:42:10Z")
I think that Whedon would honestly credit his actual inspirations, so if he says that he hadn’t seen Outlaw Star at the time, I’m inclined to believe him. Yes, there are a lot of similarities, but that could just be a result of both of them drawing from the same sources. That still probably isn’t enough to account for the naked girls in boxes, but eh, coincidences happen. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/18 "2012-02-25T22:33:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Whether or not it is a coincidence, I think you’re giving short shrift to the similarities. I mean, how many other images are you aware of with a naked teenage girl in suspended animation sleeping in a trunk/box? Supergirl had that image too, I think. There might well be others - ‘naked teenage girl’ is, for some reason, a popular image, so it pops up in more configurations than most others. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/19 "2012-02-25T22:35:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, there are a lot of similarities As a fan of both (albeit one who hasn’t seen OS since around when Firefly came out), I don’t really think there are. Outlaw Star is as much a space opera as a space western. It’s far less cynical than Firefly, and revels in its violations of physics (up to and including spellcasting), has aliens (the Ctarl-Ctarl), and takes place in a wide universe. Melfina and River are about the only similar characters (both weird girls, the result of government science projects - although Melfina was created to be the OS’s computer, whereas River was altered to be a weapon) - Mal and Gene don’t have anything in common aside from being the captains of their ships and none of the other characters really match up even in roles. (Hmm…well, I suppose Suzuka could be shoehorned into the same role as either Jayne or Book, but neither would be a comfortable fit.) The title ships are totally different - the Serenity’s a junker, the OS is top of the line. The OS is also acquired rather less legitimately. Firefly never got around to bringing any of the recurring antagonists to the forefront, whereas the MacDougall brothers show up all the damn time. Firefly was building the overarching plot slowly - in the same amount of airtime/about half as many episodes as it took Outlaw Star to actually wrap theirs up, Firefly had only just barely set things up. (Even after the movie, they had only just begun.) They’re both Space Westerns with the ships’ crews taking on odd jobs, but, beyond that and the Melfina/River coincidence, they’re not really similar at all. (Firefly is a LOT closer to Cowboy Bebop, in universe, and in tone.) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670/20 "2012-02-26T09:07:34Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > ‘naked teenage girl’ “naked teenage girl in suspended animation, in a box”, somewhat less so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-question-where-did-the-image-of-river-in-a-box-come-from/613670.md?page=2)