# Firefly&Serenity, where are the Chinese? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 29, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789 "2012-07-29T19:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/61 "2012-07-30T20:39:44Z")
My favourite explanation for the lack of Chinese people (that I read somewhere, perhaps on the Dope some time ago), was that they were all in happy, stable relationships. And this being a Joss Whedon show… ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/62 "2012-07-30T20:40:11Z")
When it comes to stewed prunes, are four too many, and two not enough? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/63 "2012-07-30T20:43:35Z")
He’s quoting Groucho Marx for reasons that are unclear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/64 "2012-07-30T20:43:48Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Please point out where someone said they were going to give the roles to white actors but the ethnic actors were too good to pass up. Michael Clarke Duncan as The Kingpin in Daredevil Idris Elba as Heimdall in Thor. These have been mentioned already. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/65 "2012-07-30T20:46:20Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > He’s quoting Groucho Marx for reasons that are unclear to me. Because arguing what percentages of ethnic make-up make an ensemble “black” or “white” is stupid and counter-productive. Plus, Groucho Marx is always appropriate! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/66 "2012-07-30T20:51:28Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Michael Clarke Duncan as The Kingpin in Daredevil > > Idris Elba as Heimdall in Thor. > > These have been mentioned already. And again, I repeat my request for a quote from someone involved in the movie who said the role was specifically meant for a white actor but the ethnic actor was too good to pass up, as opposed to a role specifically set aside by the casting director to be a minority. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/67 "2012-07-30T21:02:15Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Michael Clarke Duncan as The Kingpin in Daredevil > > Idris Elba as Heimdall in Thor. > > These have been mentioned already. His point is these are not roles that were designated white that then got cast black due to the black actor having a crazy good audition. These roles were _intentionally_ cast black to diversify the cast. One could argue that the movie role was always going to go to a minority despite the pigment of the comic book. If anything its tokenism. At least thats what I think is going on. Since I’m a good sport, I’ll point to _Much Ado about Nothing_, where Denzel Washington plays a role that would make more sense if he were white, especially since he is European royalty and the half brother of Keanu. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/68 "2012-07-30T21:17:33Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And again, I repeat my request for a quote from someone involved in the movie who said the role was specifically meant for a white actor but the ethnic actor was too good to pass up, as opposed to a role specifically set aside by the casting director to be a minority. **Wilson Morales** : Many comic book fans know that Kingpin is portrayed by a 6’7 430 pound white guy. When the casting of Kingpin came about, how were you brought in the picture? Did you auditioned for the part or were you called? **Michael Clarke Duncan** : They called me and offered me the role. The director called me and wanted to have lunch. I thought he was going to offer me something else, maybe a smaller role. When he said he wanted me to play Kingpin, I look at him and said “You know the guy is white, right?” He said yes and still thought I was the best actor for the job and the people at Fox thought I was the best actor for the job. After he told me that, I didn’t have a problem playing the role. [http://blackfilm.com/20030214/features/michaelclarkeduncan.shtml](http://blackfilm.com/20030214/features/michaelclarkeduncan.shtml) The actor himself thought the character should be white while the director and the studio executives thought a black man was the best person for the role. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/69 "2012-07-30T21:20:00Z")
I always thought the casting was right on, given that the people in the Serenity 'verse started from a small population and that there was therefore much cross-racial breeding going on. The marriage of Wash and Zoe shows that such relationships are considered absolutely normal. If anything, Wash is the outlier being light haired and blue-eyed. Almost everyone else in the cast looks like a person who is of mixed-race heritage. Even Kaylee has some vaguely oriental features, and Morena Baccarin and Summer Glau have somewhat exotic features. The ‘black’ people on the show trend more towards mulatto. Anthropologists will tell you that this is generally the fate of the races on Earth as well. Globalization brings cross-cultural contact and interbreeding, with the result that the human of the future will probably look more like the cast of Firefly than the cast of Baywatch. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/70 "2012-07-30T21:41:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Nine actors in the opening credits. Seven “white,” two “black,” colors in parentheses because I don’t really believe in human races except as a hurtful delusion probably set up by Mephistopheles. Anyway, “almost all-white” sounds right to me. If you don’t believe in races, then what difference does it make if the cast is “almost all white”? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/71 "2012-07-30T21:47:04Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > The actor himself thought the character should be white while the director and the studio executives thought a black man was the best person for the role. That’s still not what I asked for. I’m tired of typing it out. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/72 "2012-07-30T21:53:23Z")
We’re even then. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/73 "2012-07-30T22:03:00Z")
Kim Fields got the part of “Tootie” in the Facts of Life. She was the only African American to audition among a sea of white girls. And a dubious example… Sun-Hwa Kwon auditioned for Kate on Lost (a part that eventually went to a white woman), but they liked her as an actor enough to create a new character for her. Still a positive step for Asians on TV, right? Wicked has famously race-blind casting: Joel Grey/Ben Vereen playing the same part, among others. Michael Clarke Duncan’s character in The Finder was also originally a white guy in the book. Guy gets around. It does happen. Maybe not as much as it should. But it does. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/74 "2012-07-30T22:09:00Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > Wicked has famously race-blind casting: Joel Grey/Ben Vereen playing the same part, among others. > \ I don’t think Wicked counts for this discussion; that’s Broadway, not Hollywood. Nor is it unprecedented. If I recall aright, Phylicia Rashad was the second actress to play the Witch in Sondheim’s _Into the Woods_, the first being Bernadette Peters. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/75 "2012-07-30T22:24:40Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > My nephews are half Chinese and half Caucasian. If you were judging purely on appearance, they appear Caucasian. This is pretty common for part-Asian people. For some reason, the features that look Asian are only prominent on fully Asian people. I have a friend who was something like 15/16 Japanese and he could pass for white if he wanted to. Really? I doubt it. The two most devastatingly attractive men I ever met were half Asian, half caucasian, and the Asiatic features were very obvious and clear. A relative is half Korean, half caucasian, and her Korean heritage is clear in her looks. I have relatives of purely northern European origins who look Asiatic, probably due to long distant Siberian origins showing up in the genetic shuffles. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/76 "2012-07-30T22:48:17Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > Really? I doubt it. What are you doubting? I have a pretty good understanding of what Asian people look like having grown up around them and being one myself. I also have a pretty good understanding of what my own nephews looks like. I’m not saying that part Asian people CAN’T look Asian, only that part Asian people looking not very Asian at all is _commonplace_. The existence of a counter-example does not disprove this. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/77 "2012-07-31T00:56:59Z")
Cast a white woman as Storm in the next X-Men movie and there will be riots. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > There were only 13 episodes made. Simplest explanation is just that we never got to them before the series got canned. 14, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/78 "2012-07-31T01:57:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And again, I repeat my request for a quote from someone involved in the movie who said the role was specifically meant for a white actor but the ethnic actor was too good to pass up, as opposed to a role specifically set aside by the casting director to be a minority. The characters were both originally white. How does that not fit your hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/79 "2012-07-31T02:17:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Ron Glass? Gina Torres? Hence the “ **almost** all-white cast.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/80 "2012-07-31T02:35:23Z")
The character “Red” from Stephen King’s novella\* Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redepemption \*was a white guy who wound up being played by Morgan Freeman in the movie The Shawshank Redemption. Similarly, Freeman’s character Ned Logan in the original script for _Unforgiven_ was white, or at least presumably white and they never adapted the screenplay when Eastwood chose Freeman for the role. That’s why you had the odd scenes in the movie where when describing the characters to men trying to track them down references are made to “an old guy on a gray horse and a young guy on a white horse” instead of referring to “an old black guy and a young white guy” and why none of the white rednecks in the whorehouse blink when Ned goes upstairs with a white woman under each arm. That said, generally Hollywood clearly prefers it the other way around. The movie _21_, about the MIT black jack team, where a bunch of Asian-Americans were turned into white guys was a perfect example(admittedly the movie bore little relation at all to the real story). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789.md?page=5)