# Firefly&Serenity, where are the Chinese? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 29, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789 "2012-07-29T19:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/81 "2012-07-31T02:43:22Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The characters were both originally white. How does that not fit your hypothetical? Because the hypothetical is not name white comic book characters who are played by minorities in a movie. It’s name characters who were originally and specifically set out by the artistic staff to be white and then in the middle of the casting process, they find a minority actor who’s too good to pass up. Capiche? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/82 "2012-07-31T03:13:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Because the hypothetical is not name white comic book characters who are played by minorities in a movie. > > It’s name characters who were originally and specifically set out by the artistic staff to be white and then in the middle of the casting process, they find a minority actor who’s too good to pass up. Capiche? That’s a ridiculously narrow standard. No producer or casting director is ever going to say “We wanted a white person for this role.” Ever. The closest you will get is “This character wasn’t originally conceived as being a minority, but we decided we wanted what this actor brought to the role.” You’ve been given several examples of that, but you aren’t happy because you don’t have a quote of the exact words you want. **Rysler** gave you the example of Tootie in_The Facts of Life_, which is pretty clear cut: they wouldn’t have had a sea of white actresses show up for the role if they hadn’t expected to cast a white girl, but they went with Kim Fields. Of course, it’s both possible and likely that Tootie hadn’t been “specifically set out by the artistic staff to be white,” but that’s an element of the racism involved–white is considered the default. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/83 "2012-07-31T03:14:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Morena Baccarin is Brazilian. So? Brazil has plenty of people who consider themselves “white”, though they’d say “blanco” or, in her case “blanca”. Morena Baccarin is almost certainly one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/84 "2012-07-31T03:22:19Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Because the hypothetical is not name white comic book characters who are played by minorities in a movie. > > It’s name characters who were originally and specifically set out by the artistic staff to be white and then in the middle of the casting process, they find a minority actor who’s too good to pass up. Capiche? You mean like Morgan Freeman in _Unforgiven_ and _The Shawshank Redemption_? As Eastwood said, Freeman is “the world’s greatest actor” and he clearly likes putting him movies. Look, as a rule, I think you’re basically correct they Hollywood should do more race blind casting but to pretend you never have non-white actors chosen for parts that were originally conceived of as being white is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/85 "2012-07-31T04:37:45Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > …As for Thor. Come back and talk to me when Thor himself in _Thor_ is cast by a non-white, not just most of the bad guys. Then maybe I’ll acknowledge some color-blindness! … One of Thor’s posse was played a Japanese samurai-looking dude, wasn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/86 "2012-07-31T09:17:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > One of Thor’s posse was played a Japanese samurai-looking dude, wasn’t he? I’m still trying to figure out which bad guy in that movie wasn’t white. Since there’s only one bad guy in the movie, I can only conclude that Tom Hiddleston is in fact black and I need to get a better TV set. EDIT: And yeah, Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank redemption playing Red, so named because he’s Irish. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/87 "2012-07-31T10:44:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The ‘black’ people on the show trend more towards mulatto. I wouldn’t call [Chiwetel Ejiofor](http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Serenity-chiwetel-ejiofor-584555_444_289.jpg) or [Richard Brooks](http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/B/Richard-Brooks-9542266-1-402.jpg) “mulatto” in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/88 "2012-07-31T10:48:09Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out which bad guy in that movie wasn’t white. The blue ones? I know, that’s smurfist…☹ ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/89 "2012-07-31T14:03:53Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > That’s a ridiculously narrow standard. :rolleyes: Come back when you’ve read the whole conversation. (Although it hasn’t helped Ephemera or Justin Bailey.) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/90 "2012-07-31T17:42:32Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > :rolleyes: Come back when you’ve read the whole conversation. (Although it hasn’t helped Ephemera or Justin Bailey.) Because what you’re asking for is next to impossible. Holding up characters who were conceived as white, but played by minority actors on film, is the best any of us can do. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/91 "2012-07-31T19:25:21Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I agree, and it did bother me a lot. I never thought Firefly was the end-all be-all of shows, though I do like it OK. But the almost all-white cast really bothered me. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Ron Glass? Gina Torres? If we include the movie, then I can add, Chiwetel Ejiofor? By my count the core cast of the series was about 77% white. (Though I guess the rest of the universe was generally pretty palefaced) ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/92 "2012-07-31T20:08:21Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Because what you’re asking for is next to impossible. Holding up characters who were conceived as white, but played by minority actors on film, is the best any of us can do. Which means he wins! Woo hoo! **Inner Stickler**! **Inner Stickler**! In your _face_, Straight Dope Message Board!:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/93 "2012-07-31T20:21:55Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > If we include the movie, then I can add, Chiwetel Ejiofor? > > By my count the core cast of the series was about 77% white. (Though I guess the rest of the universe was generally pretty palefaced) The complaint was not that the cast lacks racial diversity, the complaint was how Chinese language and culture has managed to permeate the reality shown with not one visible person of Chinese descent. It really makes no sense, and made me wonder if it was plot relevant but it appears not. Joss had an interesting concept but didn’t care enough about it to expand on it, so while it adds flavor to the show it does seem inexplicable. Wait it is canon that the capital planet is called Sihnon :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/94 "2012-07-31T20:39:45Z")
> [@grude](#): > > The complaint was not that the cast lacks racial diversity, the complaint was how Chinese language and culture has managed to permeate the reality shown with not one visible person of Chinese descent. It really makes no sense, and made me wonder if it was plot relevant but it appears not. Joss had an interesting concept but didn’t care enough about it to expand on it, so while it adds flavor to the show it does seem inexplicable. That is a complaint about casting. The most sensible in-universe interpretation of the facts we’re given leads to the conclusion that the people you see on screen in the show _are_ the characters of Chinese descent. If they don’t _look_ Chinese, that’s a production decision. If it had been important to illustrate that aspect of the back story, they could have searched high and low for actors of more visibly Chinese ancestry. Or they could have used makeup to make their American actors look more Chinese. Or they could have not worried about it, since ethnicity never seems to be a plot point or relevant to the characters themselves anyway. Obviously they decided that other characteristics of their actors–their acting, their availability, their price–were more important for the production. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/95 "2012-07-31T20:41:55Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Joss had an interesting concept but didn’t care enough about it to expand on it, so while it adds flavor to the show it does seem inexplicable. Or, as I mentioned, he may not have had the clout to make the network paying for the show care enough about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/96 "2012-07-31T20:44:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Oh, and lastly - I know Inara is not really a prostitute. Sure, she is. We’re just negotiating the rice. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/97 "2012-07-31T20:47:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sure, she is. We’re just negotiating the rice. Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/98 "2012-07-31T20:52:11Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The most sensible in-universe interpretation of the facts we’re given leads to the conclusion that the people you see on screen in the show _are_ the characters of Chinese descent. > > If they don’t _look_ Chinese, that’s a production decision. If it had been important to illustrate that aspect of the back story, they could have searched high and low for actors of more visibly Chinese ancestry. Or they could have used makeup to make their American actors look more Chinese. Or they could have not worried about it, since ethnicity never seems to be a plot point or relevant to the characters themselves anyway. Obviously they decided that other characteristics of their actors–their acting, their availability, their price–were more important for the production. Well they could at least have had a few bit players or extras walking around in spaceports and cities, I mean what about the film Blade Runner? How did they manage to find extras? I just read something where Joss said it was not his intention to make a space western really, but that budget constraints led to every other planet being rural California shooting locations. He said they considered doing stuff to make it look more exotic but they had neither the time or money to bother. I’m guessing you are right. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/99 "2012-07-31T21:34:46Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Or they could have used makeup to make their American actors look more Chinese. I assume you mean caucasian actors. Probably not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789/100 "2012-08-01T00:58:01Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > If we include the movie, then I can add, Chiwetel Ejiofor? Definitely a stand-out non-white actor/character! Great looks, great screen presence, great charisma, a very educated and self-aware character…quite awesome. And, if we included the movie (why else include Serenity in the title?) then I seem to (vaguely) recall that River’s teacher and several of her classmates in the introductory dream sequence were Asiatic descendants. > [@Grude](#): > > Well they could at least have had a few bit players or extras walking around in spaceports and cities, I mean what about the film Blade Runner? How did they manage to find extras? With a Ridley Scott movie budget and a Phillip Jose Farmer script. See also Mr. Smithee’s comment way up above… —G! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-serenity-where-are-the-chinese/629789.md?page=6)