# Firefly: What did the Alliance want? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435 "2015-08-30T22:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/101 "2015-09-07T14:05:59Z")
Alternately, and with at least as much justice, one could say that it was typical of the condescending elite of conservativism. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/102 "2015-09-07T17:40:33Z")
It depends. If the Alliance was telling people that they had to abide by safety and labor regulations, or hire minorities and let them settle on your planet, then they were liberal according to the contemporary US political spectrum. If they were telling people who to fuck, and who could get married, and what kind of healthcare they could access, and spying on them, then they were conservatives. The idea that only one side meddles and wants a strong government that controls people is itself a political canard of one party. It isn’t true in the slightest. It also doesn’t have much to do with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/103 "2015-09-07T18:13:10Z")
I think they wanted the best profit margin, and that was folks living with 19th century technology, and dying in mines from lung disease. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/104 "2015-09-07T20:18:43Z")
Probably. Wasn’t Miranda an experiment in forced docility, that didn’t work? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/105 "2015-09-07T23:36:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Alternately, and with at least as much justice, one could say that it was typical of the condescending elite of conservativism. I didn’t say it was liberal. I said it was progressivism, defined as the desire to make society or people ‘better’ through the imposition of force. > [@Mal Reynolds](#): > > You all got on this boat for different reasons, but you’ve all come to the same place, so now I’m asking more of you than I have before — maybe all. [Because] sure as I know anything, I know this: they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten, they’ll swing back to the belief that they can make people … better. And I do not hold to that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/106 "2015-09-07T23:52:54Z")
And I didn’t say anything about “liberal”, either. I said that it was conservativism, defined as the desire to make people or society ‘better’ through the imposition of force. And that definition fits at least as well as the one you gave. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/107 "2015-09-08T00:11:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even before the movie, we have plenty of evidence that the Alliance is hopelessly corrupt. Just look at the sorts of cargoes Serenity has carried. Yeah, drugs and military supplies are fairly standard smuggling fare… but toys? Live cattle? If it’s actually profitable to smuggle those, then that’s a sign that there’s something very wrong with your society. Or it could just be normal trade sanctions. People smuggle all kinds of ordinary things when there are sanctions, or even tariffs. Maybe there was an outbreak of bovine spongiform disease on that planet that we didn’t hear about. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/108 "2015-09-08T00:22:28Z")
Now explain the matrushka dolls, which Inara said were quite profitable for them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/109 "2015-09-08T00:35:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Now explain the matrushka dolls, which Inara said were quite profitable for them. The lacquer paint contained cadmium, and the Alliance classifies the dolls as children’s toys, which have tightly restricted heavy metal content. Inara knows that they’re mostly purchased by collectors (hence the high price) and so they aren’t a real danger to children, but that’s bureaucracy for you. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/110 "2015-09-08T01:01:42Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The lacquer paint contained cadmium, and the Alliance classifies the dolls as children’s toys, which have tightly restricted heavy metal content. Inara knows that they’re mostly purchased by collectors (hence the high price) and so they aren’t a real danger to children, but that’s bureaucracy for you. Damn, that’s some good wank! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/111 "2015-09-08T01:31:59Z")
You guys paid attention to this like it was Trek. Hell, I just like to see villains kicked into the engine and come out Bad Guy Pate’. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/112 "2015-09-08T08:45:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I didn’t say anything about “liberal”, either. I said that it was conservativism, defined as the desire to make people or society ‘better’ through the imposition of force. And that definition fits at least as well as the one you gave. In my view it is liberal versus libertarian. Since it is based on 19th century America. The alliance are like the yankees, desiring more power for the state. The rebels are like the Appalachian countries, desiring individual freedom. Mal also follows an Appalachian-like honour culture, with his ridiculous dueling for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/113 "2015-09-08T09:50:10Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Damn, that’s some good wank! I prefer “fanonanism”. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/114 "2015-09-08T12:43:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Probably. Wasn’t Miranda an experiment in forced docility, that didn’t work? Yep, they put aerosolized G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate into the terraforming plants. Most people they calmed down too much, until they just lay down and starved to death. The rest snapped like twigs and became the Reavers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/115 "2015-09-08T15:08:21Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Did we ever see what form of government the Alliance is? Is it democratic, totalitarian, socialist, monarchist, some fusion of political systems?.. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > [Mal] is a rebel and a criminal who appears to enjoy both activities for sake of the excitement it beings to his life. Setting aside the Miranda debacle, the “Hands of Blue”, and “The Operative”, all of which are clearly operating at the behest of some covert organization performing what are at best extralegal orders, the bulk of what we see of The Alliance is fairly benevolent if officious and bureaucratic, and there is certainly avatvistic and criminal behavior that threatens the well-being of Alliance citizens which the government has (reasonably) elected to police and enforce laws to mitigate… There is reference to a Parliament, and there does not seem to be a dictator bossing everyone around. So the Alliance is at least putatively democratic. But it is an “officious and bureaucratic” state, as you say, with occasional corruption, and some unpleasantly lethal and amoral covert ops. > [@mr.jp](#): > > I’m drunk, so I’m gonna change the topic slightly and talk about how good Firefly is. > > It created such a unique, realistic and intriguing universe. The small things such as new phrases, or the daily life on the ship are somewhat understated and just right… The dialogue, the cast, the characters - all good. For a 'Verse that was supposedly jointly settled by the U.S. and China, though, I found it quite odd that we never saw any prominent character of Chinese descent. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > I had thought the series lost its direction in Season 3, the Auspicious Year. Having everything go \*right \*for the crew just seemed wrong. I stopped watching about half-way through but picked it up again when they showed that Jayne’s mother had been investing the monies he sent home, and now was controlling a criminal organization larger than Niska’s > > When she was finally revealed was some of the best television of the decade; Linda Hunt was the best addition to the semi-regular cast in the entire run. > [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > The S4 flashback arc was good. Showing how the seeds of corruption and discontent go all the way back to the Time of Troubles on Earth was an eye opener for certain issues brought up in S2. Having the current actors play the parts was to be expected, but Adam Baldwin being the idealistic scientist that set the whole departure movement in motion was a great choice. He carried the arc, and that finale scene was very emotionally charged… =Sigh= Would that it were so! > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Yep, they put aerosolized G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate into the terraforming plants. Most people they calmed down too much, until they just lay down and starved to death. The rest snapped like twigs and became the Reavers. Never made sense to me that they’d test it on an entire planet’s population like that. Any error has _huge_ consequences. Even if you have no ethical sense or policy of informed consent, controlled studies on smaller groups would be a lot smarter. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/116 "2015-09-08T15:10:37Z")
Which shows that they hadn’t done even preliminary tests. The drug didn’t have a 1% failure rate-- It had a 100% failure rate. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/117 "2015-09-08T15:10:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Hell, I just like to see villains kicked into the engine and come out Bad Guy Pate’. Don’t forget that there weren’t actually any “good guys” in that scene. Mal and Niska are just varying degrees of villain. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/118 "2015-09-08T15:25:35Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Don’t forget that there weren’t actually any “good guys” in that scene. Mal and Niska are just varying degrees of villain. So was Robin Hood. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/119 "2015-09-08T15:34:24Z")
Who himself probably wasn’t much better than The Hero of Canton, the Man they Call Jayne. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435/120 "2015-09-08T15:41:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Who himself probably wasn’t much better than The Hero of Canton, the Man they Call Jayne. 🙂 I bet you don’t like Admiral Janeway, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firefly-what-did-the-alliance-want/729435.md?page=7)