# Firing Squad - One Gun Has Blanks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 2, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112 "2003-10-02T13:42:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/41 "2003-10-03T05:17:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Hangmen used to wear hoods to conceal their identities, as well as those who manned the guillotine during the French Revolution. (Headsmen actually used to beg the forgiveness of the person to be executed, and it was also customary for the condemned to pay the headsman. It ensured a quick death.) > > The actual executioner in an electrocution isn’t necessarily visable to the prisoner, as I understand. Those inside the chamber give the signal, at which time the switch is thrown by another individual who may be in a seperate room, or around the back of a wall. > > Executioners in the past had a bit of social stigma about them. When a town had no full-time executioner, it was sometimes a struggle to find anyone willing to do the job. That’s one of the reasons why they wore the masks. > > There’s a book on the subject, [Lord High Executioner.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1550137867/qid=1065152690/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1801427-0734542?v=glance&s=books) Another I recommend is [The Death Penalty: An American History.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674010833/qid=1065152855/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1801427-0734542) Both have lengthy sections on the social status of executioners. \*\* Yes, if you want to go back to the 11th, or even the 19th, century you can find all sorts of taboos. However, in most places the things you cite no longer apply. For example, in Iowa in the 1930’s and maybe before and after, the sheriff of the country in which the crime was committed used to travel to Ft. Madison in order to spring the trap in the hanging. I don’t know that executioners advertise their job today but I don’t see that there is a great effort to hide it. Anyway, nowdays it is probably an “in addition to his other duties” type of thing, except in Texas where it seems to be part of a growth industry. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/42 "2003-10-03T06:49:07Z")
As for an officer shooting a man without trial, I imagine there must be circumstances where it is required. For example, if a soldier is violating orders in combat in such a way as to endanger the mission or other soldiers. Say, by yelling at people when they are trying to maintain unobserved, or threatening other soldiers with his weapon, or attempting to desert to the enemy with classified information or equipment, or in general being a wilfully dangerous dipshit in combat. Is right of an officer to shoot a man in such circumstances codified anywhere? Or is it just a case that if you did it, you’d have to go to trial and make your case? ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/43 "2003-10-03T11:06:13Z")
If a soldier is endangering a mission by making a lot of noise and thereby alerting the enemy I would have thought that a pistol shot would make them even more alert, perhaps a swift clout round the head with a rifle butt would be less of a giveaway. As for desertion in the face of the enemy, well again I would have thought that a knife would do the job much quieter. --------------------- Regarding the separate chamber for the guy that actually throws the switch, come on now, we’ve all seen The Green Mile. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/44 "2003-10-03T11:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robby \* > \*\*I don’t know if the story is an UL or not, but I’ve always heard that the family is billed _after_ the execution. Presumably the Chinese government has the means to enforce the collection of the debt from the family. \*\* Again, not sure if it is UL or not, but the version I heard (on this very board IIRC) is that the family are billed for the expense of execution only if they wish to reclaim the body for private burial. ---
**Author:** ![critter42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@critter42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/critter42)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/45 "2003-10-03T12:16:37Z")
The earliest place I can find mentioning the composition of Gary Gilmore’s execution squad is “The Executioner’s Song” by Norman Mailer. There do not seem to be any references that pre-date the book, so I believe that any story that references Gilmore’s execution probably come from recollections of the book. Let’s not forget that Mailer is also an accomplished FICTION writer, and I wouldn’t put it past him to include some “embellishments” to further a good story. Put me in the UL camp for now, until we get concrete evidence from Utah’s board of corrections (or whoever there is responsible for firing squads there) critter42 ---
**Author:** ![NFlanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@NFlanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NFlanders)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/46 "2003-10-03T12:55:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*Is there some reason you’re acting like a dick? How many times has a UL been reported as fact by a mainstream news medium just because it’s been reported so many times previously? So just go roll those eyes at somebody else until such time as you provide some documentation from, say, the state of Utah that when they mount a firing squad one member of the squad gets blanks. \*\* Hey, save it for the Pit jackass. I rolled my eyes because you will only except the most extraordinary, least-likely-to-exist evidence against a mountain of news resources. Yes, occasionally ULs are picked up by the media, but you have provided no evidence to even suggest it might be false besides your “gut hunch”. Get your thin-skinned ass out of GQ and into a more appropriate forum. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/47 "2003-10-03T13:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*As for an officer shooting a man without trial, I imagine there must be circumstances where it is required. For example, if a soldier is violating orders in combat in such a way as to endanger the mission or other soldiers. Say, by yelling at people when they are trying to maintain unobserved, or threatening other soldiers with his weapon, or attempting to desert to the enemy with classified information or equipment, or in general being a wilfully dangerous dipshit in combat. > > Is right of an officer to shoot a man in such circumstances codified anywhere? Or is it just a case that if you did it, you’d have to go to trial and make your case? \*\* Panic is contagious and every effort is made to, as Barney Fife used to tell Sheriff Andy, “Nip it! Nip it in the bud!” However, I think we can safely assume that anti-panic measures don’t include summary executions. Discipline and the will to not run away are not really all that dependent on the fear of being shot by your own officers. I think the desire to stay with the group where you have some company in your misery and some moral support is a lot more important. Running away is not common, but hugging the ground and not advancing, even when that would be better, is. When you are being shot at there is a powerful desire to hide. Anything, even a twig, is preferable to the feeling of being exposed. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/48 "2003-10-03T13:47:51Z")
What I do not understand is the prostituting of the term “urban legend” going on here lately. It seems perfectly natural and normal to have a few blanks in the firing squad. If I were to set up a firing squad, I’d not want my shooters to know which one actually killed the person. If I were a shooter in the firing squad, I would WANT a few people to have blanks. Why is it so hard to believe that such a level-headed approach to firing squads would constitute and urban legend? Come on, Otto. Aside from the well-documented links about the blanks, it just makes sense to throw a few blanks into the guns. The guy will still end up dead, and nobody on the squad will have to go to bed at night knowing for sure that their bullet was the one who killed the guy. The term “urban legend” should be reserved for the fantastical and unprovable. And, for good measure, something that just doesn’t make sense. Calling the blanks in the guns an UL fails all these tests, and strays into the realm of wild conspiricy theory. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/49 "2003-10-03T14:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*Is there some reason you’re acting like a dick? \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NFlanders \* > \*\*Hey, save it for the Pit jackass. \*\* **Otto** and **NFlanders** , you will not insult your fellow posters outside the BBQ Pit if you wish to retain your posting privileges. Consider yourselves warned. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/50 "2003-10-03T15:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I rolled my eyes because you will only except [sic] the most extraordinary, least-likely-to-exist evidence against a mountain of news resources. Yes, occasionally ULs are picked up by the media, but you have provided no evidence to even suggest it might be false besides your “gut hunch”. First, apologies to **bibliophage**. Second, I didn’t use the phrase “gut hunch.” Third, rather than rely on second-hand _unsourced_ news articles, I went to the source, which was the Utah code governing the creation and composition of firing squads. Nothing there about one member of the squad being armed with a blank. It does not seem unreasonable, given the _silence_ of the _primary source_ on the subject, to state that absent a copy of a regulation from Utah it sounds like an urban legend. Given that there are state regulations for pretty much everything a state does, a regulation regarding something like whether a member of a firing squad will be armed with a blank round is neither extraordinary nor unlikely to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/51 "2003-10-03T16:15:34Z")
**bibliophage** , how is a verbal insult any more offensive than the ‘rolling of eyes’ emoticon following a sarcastic statement? Hell, he didn’t even call him a dick, he merely asked why he was “acting like a dick”. Pay attention ---
**Author:** ![Turbo\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Turbo\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turbo_Dog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/52 "2003-10-03T16:43:57Z")
More on the Utah “Urban Legend” from Methods of Execution and Protocals by the [Floride Senate Commitee on Criminal Justice](http://www.fcc.state.fl.us/fcc/reports/monitor/methmon.html) which is duplicated at the website of the [Indiana Clark County Prosecuting Attorney’s office](http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm). > [@](#): > > E. Utah’s Protocol on Execution by Firing Squad [snip] The firing squad is composed of six members. [snip] The weapons used are 30-30 caliber rifles. [snip] the team members sight through open sights on the white cloth circle on the offender’s chest. On the command to fire, the squad fires simultaneously. One squad member has a blank charge in his weapon but no member knows which member is designated to receive this blank charge. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/53 "2003-10-03T17:14:28Z")
Well…see [http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm](http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm) > [@](#): > > **The Utah statute authorizing execution by firing squad only provides: “If the judgment of death is to be carried out by shooting, the executive director of the department or his designee shall select a five-person firing squad of peace officers.”** At the appropriate time, the condemned offender is led to the execution area or chamber, which is used for both lethal injection and firing squad executions. The offender is placed in a specially designed chair which has a pan beneath it to catch and conceal blood and other fluids. Restraints are applied to the offender’s arms, legs, chest and head. A head restraint is applied loosely around the offender’s neck to hold his neck and head in an upright position. The offender is dressed in a dark blue outfit with a white cloth circle attached by Velcro to the area over the offender’s heart. Behind the offender are sandbags to absorb the volley and prevent ricochets. Approximately 20 feet directly in front of the offender is a wall. This wall has firing ports for each member of the firing squad. The weapons used are 30\_30 caliber rifles. No special ammunition is used. Following the offender’s statement, a hood is placed over the offender’s head. The warden leaves the room. The firing squad members stand in the firing position. They support their rifles on the platform rests. With their rifle barrels in the firing ports, the team members sight through open sights on the white cloth circle on the offender’s chest. On the command to fire, the squad fires simultaneously. One squad member has a blank charge in his weapon but no member knows which member is designated to receive this blank charge. (See Utah Execution Procedures) So. the **statute** only specifies the designation of a five person firing squad. The **Utah Execution Procedures** , which don’t appear to be posted on-line, give the “how to” for the procedure. One hopes that the UL notion has been put to rest. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/54 "2003-10-03T17:16:01Z")
And I obviously skipped Turbo Dog’s post. Apologies for the duplication. ---
**Author:** ![Turbo\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Turbo\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turbo_Dog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/55 "2003-10-03T17:23:28Z")
Anticipating doubt, I just sent an email to the Utah Department of Corrections asking them if they could verify the information from the other states. When and if they reply, I will post the verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/56 "2003-10-03T19:17:13Z")
From **beagledave** ’s quote: > [@](#): > > The weapons used are 30\_30 caliber rifles. _No special ammunition is used_. > > (Emphasis mine) That looks pretty conclusive. Doesn’t mean that other places, and other people haven’t been executed using the “One Blank” method. Tradition, even mistaken tradition, is a strong influence, and other places with less specific codes may very well have used that popular belief as a guide to the proper method of execution. ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/57 "2003-10-03T19:45:27Z")
Well **Tranquilis** , I’d only take the “No special ammunition” bit as meaning “We just use whatever we find at the hardware store, we don’t have special execution bullets”, not “we don’t use one traditional blank round”, if you see the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/58 "2003-10-03T20:25:10Z")
From the point of view of every armorer I’ve ever known, blanks _are_ special ammunition, but I suppose that _might_ be open to interpretation, but it’s a long stretch. Blanks are _not_ a commonly issued round. Pretty slender thread on which to hang a conclusion, and I think my interpretaion makes more sense. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/59 "2003-10-03T21:30:09Z")
**Tranquilis** , about seven sentences after the “no special ammunition” statement, **beagledave** ’s source goes on to state that “[o]ne squad member has a blank charge in his weapon but no member knows which member is designated to receive this blank charge.” So clearly whoever was writing that paragraph did not consider “no special ammunition” and “one blank charge is used” to be contradictory. [Utah Administrative Rule R251-107](http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r251/r251-107.htm) gives procedures for executions, and doesn’t mention blank rounds, or anything else about the ammunition to be used. Then again, R251-107 also doesn’t seem to specify that the firing squad shall be equipped with rifles (as opposed to pistols or shotguns). [This article](http://www.upoa.org/archives/Haueters/MercyonSoul.htm) from the website of the [Utah Peace Officer Association](http://www.upoa.org) includes the following: > [@](#): > > A firing squad consists of five men, one alternate, and a Cadence Counter. The rifles are loaded by the Cadence Counter and one rifle will contain a blank cartridge. The members of the squad do not know which rifle contains the blank. The target used is a cloth target with a dollar size circle on it. The rifles are loaded after the squad are at their stations. This appears to be describing procedures used during the 1950’s; at this point, however, I think the burden of proof is probably on the “UL” side to show that those procedures have been altered since then. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112/60 "2003-10-03T21:44:51Z")
**beagledave** , your cite is the same one I posted. **Turbo Dog** , ditto, except that the Utah statute I also cited specifies that the squad is made up of five members, not six. And to clarify for the, what, third time, I didn’t definitively state that the blank round is a UL. What I said was it sounds like a UL absent some definitive site from Utah. As far as I’m concerned the article from the Utah peace officer satisfies that requirement, although personally I’d still like to see a copy of Utah’s execution procedures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squad-one-gun-has-blanks/205112.md?page=4)