# Firing squads before the advent of firearms **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905 "2017-03-24T13:13:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/1 "2017-03-24T13:13:59Z")
The Christian martyr Sebastian was famously sentenced to death by shooting. Of course, since this supposedly took place in Ancient Rome, the executioners were armed not with guns but with bows and arrows. (It’s lesser known that Sebastian miraculously survived the shooting and was rescued. Diocletian had to order yet another execution to finish him off—this time by bludgeoning.) Now, I’m aware that the use of the term “firing squad” in the thread title is an anachronism, but I couldn’t really come up with a better term, because I’m not aware of any other cases where a squad of archers was assembled to effect a judicial execution. Was this a common or at least officially prescribed method of capital punishment in any part of the world at any time? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/2 "2017-03-24T14:07:18Z")
Don’t know about common, but t[he Vikings are said to have used it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_the_Martyr)…better than the Blood Eagle, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/3 "2017-03-24T15:10:07Z")
Wouldn’t stoning from biblical times be considered a very crude firing squad? Line somebody up against a wall, substitute rocks for bullets and have at it. I don’t know how common it was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/4 "2017-03-24T15:36:34Z")
There is a hilarious scene in _The Four Musketeers_ (the one with Oliver Reed, Frank Finlay, Richard Chamberlain, Michael York, Charlton Heston, Christopher Lee, Fay Dunaway, and Raquel Welch - you know, the REAL one) where Rochefort (Lee) is to be executed by a firing squad armed with matchlock weapons. The loading and firing procedure, being called by the squad leader (_“blow up your coal!”_), is excruciatingly long, and, when they finally get around to firing, all bullets miss - a not uncommon result of firing smoothbore muskets. As the squad leader sighs and starts the procedure all over, Rochefort dryly notes that he might yet die of old age. At this point the Three Musketeers plus d’Artagnan (the FOUR Musketeers, duh) take advantage of the delay to sneak up and rescue Rochefort. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/5 "2017-03-24T16:41:44Z")
IIRC the logic of a firing squad was that a group fired at once, and nobody would really know who actually killed the person. In the days before firearms that was not exactly possible. Group killings - arrows, stoning, etc. - probably helped “spread the blame” so the entire group took on responsibility. It also removed the need for a specialized executioner which may or may not have been a desired role for some minion. Plus, arrow wounds probably are not necessarily as immediately fatal as larger caliber well aimed bullets. The question is - are you looking for a quick death, or to inflict as much pain as possible? (Recall that both Mary Queen of Scots and Jane Howard, IIRC, it took several axe blows to fully sever the head… I assume executioner was a learn-as-you-go occupation?) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/6 "2017-03-24T16:49:35Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > (Recall that both Mary Queen of Scots and Jane Howard, IIRC, it took several axe blows to fully sever the head… I assume executioner was a learn-as-you-go occupation?) This was what led to the invention of the guillotine - as a “more humane”, less butcher-y method of killing. Its proponents (Robespierre included) were opposed to the death penalty in general, but figured this was a good temporary compromise. Of course, Robespierre would switch gears later in life & circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/7 "2017-03-24T17:37:36Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IIRC the logic of a firing squad was that a group fired at once, and nobody would really know who actually killed the person. In the days before firearms that was not exactly possible. Group killings - arrows, stoning, etc. - probably helped “spread the blame” so the entire group took on responsibility. It also removed the need for a specialized executioner which may or may not have been a desired role for some minion. Plus, arrow wounds probably are not necessarily as immediately fatal as larger caliber well aimed bullets. The question is - are you looking for a quick death, or to inflict as much pain as possible? > > (Recall that both Mary Queen of Scots and Jane Howard, IIRC, it took several axe blows to fully sever the head… I assume executioner was a learn-as-you-go occupation?) It’s also said that one or more person on the squad has a blank, so no one knows who really shot a bullet and who didn’t. The execution scene in “Breaker Morant” shows each soldier holding their rifle action open, and a sergeant walking down the line loading a round for each one. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/8 "2017-03-24T18:38:34Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > It’s also said that one or more person on the squad has a blank, so no one knows who really shot a bullet and who didn’t. The execution scene in “Breaker Morant” shows each soldier holding their rifle action open, and a sergeant walking down the line loading a round for each one. There’s a hilarious old Playboy cartoon that has a line of archers drawn up before a man to be executed, and the leader of the squad is telling them that one of them will be shooting a “blank”. You see that he’s holding, behind his back, a sheaf of arrows, but one of them has a rubber suction tip. Stoning to death was a common punishment, of course. It’s well-attested, and requires a minimum of equipment. I can’t help wondering if anyone was ever killed by slings. Sling men were renowned for their accuracy and skill (unlike someone like me, who’d be likely to hit anyone within slinging distance, in any direction). Although they used smooth stones (as David did in the Bible story), the missile of preference was a lenticular mass of lead, often with something engraved on it. They could build up quite a bit of speed with a sling, too, so getting hit with one of those lead missiles would be like being shot with a musket. A battery of six skilled sling-men would have made a really effective Firing Squad. I’ve never heard of it being used, though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/9 "2017-03-24T18:52:47Z")
Cannons were developed several decades before handheld firearms were. Those early firing squads must have been impressive. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/10 "2017-03-24T19:13:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I can’t help wondering if anyone was ever killed by slings. Sling men were renowned for their accuracy and skill (unlike someone like me, who’d be likely to hit anyone within slinging distance, in any direction). Although they used smooth stones (as David did in the Bible story), the missile of preference was a lenticular mass of lead, often with something engraved on it. They could build up quite a bit of speed with a sling, too, so getting hit with one of those lead missiles would be like being shot with a musket. A battery of six skilled sling-men would have made a really effective Firing Squad. I’ve never heard of it being used, though. Slingers were placed behind the archers in the military formations of the day, as they had greater range, greater accuracy, and greater rate of fire. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Cannons were developed several decades before handheld firearms were. Those early firing squads must have been impressive. It’s call being [blown from cannon](http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/execution-cannon-1890s/), and was used heavily by the British in India, among others. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/11 "2017-03-25T05:06:47Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > It’s call being [blown from cannon](http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/execution-cannon-1890s/), and was used heavily by the British in India, among others. Wow, a method I had not heard of before. Lots of illustrations showing the hapless prisoner strapped across the muzzle. And the descriptions of how the body parts fly is as gruesome as it gets. If ever there was a quick, foolproof method of execution, this is it. It wasn’t real clear, but did they just use the muzzle blast, there was no iron cannonball clearing the way? One account mentioned they accidentally loaded grape shot which created carnage among the spectators. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/12 "2017-03-25T06:12:56Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > Wow, a method I had not heard of before. Lots of illustrations showing the hapless prisoner strapped across the muzzle. And the descriptions of how the body parts fly is as gruesome as it gets. If ever there was a quick, foolproof method of execution, this is it. > > It wasn’t real clear, but did they just use the muzzle blast, there was no iron cannonball clearing the way? One account mentioned they accidentally loaded grape shot which created carnage among the spectators. > > Dennis Yes, just the gun powder itself was enough to create a deadly concussive blast to everyone in front of it. I remember reading how during the Vietnam War during extremely close range fighting at firebases American artillerymen would load their artillery with only the propellant charges and not the shell itself and fire it at approaching enemy forces which was enough to either kill them or at least disorient them so others could finish them off. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/13 "2017-03-25T15:13:17Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > It’s also said that one or more person on the squad has a blank, so no one knows who really shot a bullet and who didn’t. The execution scene in “Breaker Morant” shows each soldier holding their rifle action open, and a sergeant walking down the line loading a round for each one. This doesn’t seem likely; by the time you’re a combat rifleman, you’ll be able to tell if you just fired a blank or not. Others have said that the purpose is so that any man on the squad can claim to have fired the blank, and so avoid barracks-room criticism for having killed someone who might have been a pal. “Yeah, I was on the squad, but I fired the blank.” It is said that entire squads have claimed to have fired the blank. There was a previous thread, back in 2004, where this came up… [QUOTE=engineer\_comp\_geek] Yes. You can tell the difference between firing a live round and firing a blank. [/QUOTE] ETA: From Wikipedia, “…in more recent times, such as in the execution of Ronnie Lee Gardner in the American state of Utah in 2010, a rifleman may be given a “dummy” cartridge containing a wax bullet instead of a lead bullet, which provides a more realistic recoil.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/14 "2017-03-25T15:32:01Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There’s a hilarious old Playboy cartoon that has a line of archers drawn up before a man to be executed, and the leader of the squad is telling them that one of them will be shooting a “blank”. You see that he’s holding, behind his back, a sheaf of arrows, but one of them has a rubber suction tip. Similarly, there’s an episode of _Corner Gas_ in which Leroy has taken up the habit of collecting random bits of junk from around the small Saskatchewan town where the characters live, to the annoyance of his wife, Emma: Leroy: It’s an Indian arrowhead. Emma: It’s a rock. Leroy: It’s a piece of history. Emma: It’s not an arrowhead. It’s not even pointy. Leroy: It’s the kind they used for practice. It’s like a blank. Emma: You’re an idiot. [smash cut to “300 years ago”, showing two Cree warriors standing on the open plain] Cree Warrior #1: This is the worst arrowhead you’ve ever made. It’s not even sharp. Cree Warrior #2: I thought maybe it could be used for practice. CW1: You’re really slipping. [tosses arrowhead to the ground] CW2: You’re just going to leave it there? CW1: Some idiot will pick it up. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/15 "2017-03-25T15:48:38Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Slingers were placed behind the archers in the military formations of the day, as they had greater range, greater accuracy, and greater rate of fire. > > It’s call being [blown from cannon](http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/execution-cannon-1890s/), and was used heavily by the British in India, among others. > [@mixdenny](#): > > Wow, a method I had not heard of before. Lots of illustrations showing the hapless prisoner strapped across the muzzle. And the descriptions of how the body parts fly is as gruesome as it gets. If ever there was a quick, foolproof method of execution, this is it. This method of execution featured large in one of the Flashman books set in India. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/16 "2017-03-25T15:53:25Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > This method of execution featured large in one of the Flashman books set in India. _Great_ scene, that one, and one of the few scenes that actually shows an, uh, halfway morally decent side of Flashman. It’s one of my favourite of the _Flashman_ books, although the _Mountain of Light_, also set in India about ten years earlier, is even better. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/17 "2017-03-25T16:35:47Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > . . . It’s call being [blown from cannon](http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/execution-cannon-1890s/), and was used heavily by the British in India, among others. What’s really astonishing about this is that it was not a barbaric practice of callous cruelty, but actually a concession, of sorts, as it allowed the victim to claim he had died by force of arms, rather than being hanged. Hanging was so demoralizing, captives (specifically of the Sepoy Rebellion of 1857) asked to be blown from cannons rather than go to the gallows. (Fair warning; this is from George Dodd’s “History of the Indian Revolt,” published in 1859, when emotions were still high, and history was unabashedly biased. Still, the book has most of the hallmarks of decent historical writing; the bias is not absolutely jingoistical.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/18 "2017-03-28T07:21:34Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > What’s really astonishing about this is that it was not a barbaric practice of callous cruelty, but actually a concession, of sorts, as it allowed the victim to claim he had died by force of arms, rather than being hanged. One assumes others would be making the claim on the victim’s behalf. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/19 "2017-03-28T11:01:23Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > This method of execution featured large in one of the Flashman books set in India. Jules Verne used it in _The Steam House_ (AKA _Tigers and Traitors_), which is, I suspect, where George MacDonald Fraser got the idea. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-before-the-advent-of-firearms/782905/20 "2017-03-28T15:21:40Z")
I was in India a while ago, and one of the tourist site exhibits mentioned about how the Indians fought the British in the 1850’s in their “First War of Independence”.