# Firing squads: Why the blank? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556 "2010-06-17T15:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/41 "2010-06-18T20:38:23Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I am not an experienced shooter, I have only fired a a gun with real ammo maybe twice and one loaded with blanks 2 or 3 times. > > But as I recall, you’d have to be really stupid or brain dead not to be able to tell the difference, a gun loaded with blanks has absolutely no recoil. How about those big blanks they used to use for rifle grenades? They had quite a kick. ---
**Author:** ![yastobaal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/258eb7/32.png) [@yastobaal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yastobaal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/42 "2010-06-18T21:01:59Z")
The guys in charge have thought about these issues with the blanks giving less recoil than normal. To solve this it seems that they are using something to reduce this discrepancy. How much by, has not been explained by the sources so far but they are thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/43 "2010-06-18T21:35:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about those big blanks they used to use for rifle grenades? They had quite a kick. The kick comes from moving a rather heavy object. (Opposite/equal reaction.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/44 "2010-06-18T21:47:43Z")
True. But even without the grenades, they carried a lot more gunppowder than regular blanks, or regular rounds. Cleaning a weapon after using them was a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/45 "2010-06-18T22:09:54Z")
> [@CC](#): > > I hope this doesn’t move this discussion too close to GD, but isn’t the inclusion of a blank, and its rationale, an admission that the process by definition is inhumane? It’s only an admission that it is inhumane _to the shooters_ to _force_ them to execute someone. It says nothing about whether it is inhumane to the prisoner, or to the shooters if they are only in the squad by choice. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/46 "2010-06-19T02:40:11Z")
So what would they do if the prisoner didn’t die immediately? (Say, improbably, all four executioners were a bit off-target and the prisoner had super-human strength.) Do they have a back-up plan? Reload and do it again? Surely they have a contingency plan, right? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/47 "2010-06-19T02:47:22Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > So what would they do if the prisoner didn’t die immediately? (Say, improbably, all four executioners were a bit off-target and the prisoner had super-human strength.) Do they have a back-up plan? Reload and do it again? > > Surely they have a contingency plan, right? Well, this MUST have happened occasionally in the past- hence, the famous last words of “Breaker” Morant were “Shoot straight, you bastards- don’t make a mess of it.” ---
**Author:** ![MemoryDump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@MemoryDump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryDump)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/48 "2010-06-19T05:25:54Z")
I’m not too sure those guys were very good shots under the stress of it. Picture 13 in the AP slide show seems to show that the cluster was pretty spread out; the bullet holes seem to extend all across his upper body. Warning–a little grizzly… [http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/execution-chamber-executed-by-firing-squad/photo//100618/480/urn\_publicid\_ap\_org0958e230e4864802b1092c20e444445b//s:/ap/20100618/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_utah\_firing\_squad#photoViewer=/100618/480/urn\_publicid\_ap\_org6c7281d05efa48db96a9ef20f6f6f3be](http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/execution-chamber-executed-by-firing-squad/photo//100618/480/urn_publicid_ap_org0958e230e4864802b1092c20e444445b//s:/ap/20100618/ap_on_re_us/us_utah_firing_squad#photoViewer=/100618/480/urn_publicid_ap_org6c7281d05efa48db96a9ef20f6f6f3be) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/49 "2010-06-19T05:41:23Z")
> [@MemoryDump](#): > > I’m not too sure those guys were very good shots under the stress of it. Picture 13 in the AP slide show seems to show that the cluster was pretty spread out; the bullet holes seem to extend all across his upper body. Warning–a little grizzly… [http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/execution-chamber-executed-by-firing-squad/photo//100618/480/urn\_publicid\_ap\_org0958e230e4864802b1092c20e444445b//s:/ap/20100618/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_utah\_firing\_squad#photoViewer=/100618/480/urn\_publicid\_ap\_org6c7281d05efa48db96a9ef20f6f6f3be](http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/execution-chamber-executed-by-firing-squad/photo//100618/480/urn_publicid_ap_org0958e230e4864802b1092c20e444445b//s:/ap/20100618/ap_on_re_us/us_utah_firing_squad#photoViewer=/100618/480/urn_publicid_ap_org6c7281d05efa48db96a9ef20f6f6f3be) That is more spread out than I would have imagined. However, I suppose it’s possible that if the shooters were spread out, that could affect where the bullets ended up hitting the chair after passing through his chest. If the guys on the ends are at a 70 degree angle, then their shots could pass through his heart and end up far to the side on the chair. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/50 "2010-06-19T06:48:19Z")
Most executions I have seen on the internet from China have the victim on his knees and a round fired into the head from behind and almost point blank. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/51 "2010-06-19T07:00:39Z")
If you want a real guarantee of a quick kill, have the marksmen fire rifle grenades. And then a hose. ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/52 "2010-06-19T13:35:07Z")
What a load of old horse. Hey if you are going to execute people, then get a group of people together who want - Yes WANT to kill the sob. Stop this moral/mental deniability schtik. Makes me want to puke. Every time there is a debate about the death sentance on this site, there are shed loads of yahoos who say they’d love to kill the perp, rather than have to pay to keep them in prison for the next 30 years. And this is a kind of a liberal board - hosted in a groovy city man! Are you telling me they cant find enough meathead army voluteers who WANT to shoot a child rapist ? Of course, the issue might run deaper: some people who support the death sentance may lean toward the christian right. They may be worried about what their god might think about their actions. In which case, the mental agility required to justify standing in front of a perp pointing a gun at the heart and pulling the trigger, and think you are not going to hell coz someone had a blank, demands a special kind of medal. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/53 "2010-06-19T14:05:00Z")
> [@sinical\_brit](#): > > What a load of old horse. > > Hey if you are going to execute people, then get a group of people together who want - Yes WANT to kill the sob. > > Stop this moral/mental deniability schtik. Makes me want to puke. > > Every time there is a debate about the death sentance on this site, there are shed loads of yahoos who say they’d love to kill the perp, rather than have to pay to keep them in prison for the next 30 years. And this is a kind of a liberal board - hosted in a groovy city man! > > Are you telling me they cant find enough meathead army voluteers who WANT to shoot a child rapist ? > > Of course, the issue might run deaper: some people who support the death sentance may lean toward the christian right. They may be worried about what their god might think about their actions. In which case, the mental agility required to justify standing in front of a perp pointing a gun at the heart and pulling the trigger, and think you are not going to hell coz someone had a blank, demands a special kind of medal. Dainty executioners and botch-prone killing contraptions give capital punishment a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/54 "2010-06-19T14:46:49Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > Good question, but I don’t necessarily think so. As a trivial example, someone may think it’s OK to humanely slaughter animals for food, but they’d rather not be the one to do it. Multiply that about a google for human execution (although, for other reasons, I personally am leaning toward wanting to abolish the death penalty). After some thought, I realize that the presence of the gun and the opportunity to provide plausible deniability is a way for the\* state _to execute a person, without having any_ individual \*do it. The execution is done on behalf of the state, even though it is actually carried out by individual people. That blank creates the wall between an act of the state and an act of individuals. (It’s still morally reprehensable to me, in any version, but I now think I understand this aspect of it.) ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/55 "2010-06-19T15:33:11Z")
Mmm - my rant may have been a bit debatey for this forum. I agree with CCs assessment that its all about making the state feel ok. Not the executioners. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/56 "2010-06-19T15:43:28Z")
I know that it’s only tangentially related to the OP, but I’m still curious about these ‘blank’ rounds. As I’ve said, there has to be mass for the gasses to push against to create enough recoil for the shooter not to know it was a blank. I appreciate the mention of wax bullets and such, but I don’t see how they’d have enough mass. 😕 I’m wondering if maybe the real ammo is specially loaded, perhaps with a lighter powder charge or lighter bullets, so as to be closer to the dummy round? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/57 "2010-06-19T16:21:47Z")
The truth is that even the most sure and loud volunteer ,may suffer some psychological effects from executing a human being. Many are so sure they could do it guilt free, but throughout history many executioners have eventually suffered. That is why they try to provide an out. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/58 "2010-06-19T16:50:48Z")
If I’m not mistaken, executin by firing squad has a military origin (which explains the blank, for the benefit of the guys who have to go against all training and shoot one of their own). IIRC, Field Marshal Jodl got all pouty at the Nuremeburg Trials because he wanted to be shot, not hanged like those civillians. But if that’s it origins, why is it restricted to an infantry-based traditon? Why not give the artillery boys their turn, [like they did in India?](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Sepoy_Mutiny_Execution.jpg). There’s plenty of horses in Utah. Why not ask for volunteers and hand them cavalry sabers? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/59 "2010-06-19T20:48:07Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > If I’m not mistaken, executin by firing squad has a military origin (which explains the blank, for the benefit of the guys who have to go against all training and shoot one of their own). IIRC, Field Marshal Jodl got all pouty at the Nuremeburg Trials because he wanted to be shot, not hanged like those civillians. I’ve always been strangely sympathetic to his desire. If I were to be executed I would wish for a firing squad. It seems like a strangely dignified way to die. Quick enough to be humane, but slow enough, I suspect, to know it is happening. Unlike Woody Allan, I want to be there when I die. I can’t imagine anything more horrible than to be executed by lethal injection: strapped to a gurney and slowly eased out of existence like a pet being put to sleep. Not even aware of my own last breath. Hanging would be better than lethal injection, but it is less dignified than a firing squad. At least it has the distinction of being uniquely human. We don’t hang any other animals. It’s also not completely sanitized. I think we degrade our own humanity when we deny the humanity of those we execute. I’m opposed to the death penalty in principle, but if it is to be done, I think our own dignity as well as the dignity of the criminal demands that the act be honest and not made too easy or comfortable, for either the victim or the executioner. In light of that, I can understand the blank as a way of deemphasizing personal responsibility in order to highlight the shared and collective responsibility of society and the state. As a method of diminishing responsibility for all, however, it is despicable. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556/60 "2010-06-19T20:55:44Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I’ve always been strangely sympathetic to his desire. If I were to be executed I would wish for a firing squad. It seems like a strangely dignified way to die. Quick enough to be humane, but slow enough, I suspect, to know it is happening. Unlike Woody Allan, I want to be there when I die. I can’t imagine anything more horrible than to be executed by lethal injection: strapped to a gurney and slowly eased out of existence like a pet being put to sleep. Not even aware of my own last breath. Hanging would be better than lethal injection, but it is less dignified than a firing squad. At least it has the distinction of being uniquely human. We don’t hang any other animals. It’s also not completely sanitized. I think we degrade our own humanity when we deny the humanity of those we execute. I’m opposed to the death penalty in principle, but if it is to be done, I think our own dignity as well as the dignity of the criminal demands that the act be honest and not made too easy or comfortable, for either the victim or the executioner. > > In light of that, I can understand the blank as a way of deemphasizing personal responsibility in order to highlight the shared and collective responsibility of society and the state. As a method of diminishing responsibility for all, however, it is despicable. But would you prefer a successful lethal injection or a botched firing squad? “I’ll just wing him, nobody will know,” has probably gone through someone’s mind when pressed into execution detail. But with the blank, I think the reaction would be more like, “There’s a chance I’m not even firing real bullets, so I’ll just aim for the heart like I’m supposed to do.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-squads-why-the-blank/543556.md?page=4)