# Firing Upheld of middle school science teacher / former porn star **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410 "2013-01-16T18:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/41 "2013-01-16T20:45:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > every kid in her class is going to have video’s of her on their phone and pictures of her in their folders. “Going to”? That probably took about 3 hours, max. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/42 "2013-01-16T20:46:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The OP certainly does: the dishonesty shown by Ms. Halas after her second career came to light. Ha! Nailed it! > [@TriPolar](#): > > …If I was in her class she’d have 100% of my attention. At first, I bored with her teaching. Then, I became intrigued. Soon, I became very, very interested. And then I lost interest. (paraphrased from the Ladies Man) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/43 "2013-01-16T20:45:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Do a goggle image search for “Tiffany Six”. It’s not just naked pictures, it’s her…uh oral skills as well. A proctologist could render a medical opinion by viewing her pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/44 "2013-01-16T21:01:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The OP certainly does: the dishonesty shown by Ms. Halas after her second career came to light. So employers or the government should have the power to enforce honesty regarding the details of one’s personal life? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/45 "2013-01-16T21:02:42Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > No, she didn’t. You should write the panel that unanimously voted against her. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/46 "2013-01-16T21:04:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have two independent grounds. > > First, and most fatal, her dishonesty after the porn career became known. She denied she had done it, then she denied she had done it while employed as a teacher. > . Out of curiosity, would you have agreed the firing was justified if the lie was about something more innocuous? Say if it was if she played poker or has ever worn a skirt that ended more than 3 inches above the knee? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/47 "2013-01-16T21:08:38Z")
What pathetic behavior on the part of the school. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/48 "2013-01-16T21:15:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So employers or the government should have the power to enforce honesty regarding the details of one’s personal life? As a broad proposition with no exceptions? No. Under the particular circumstances in play here? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/49 "2013-01-16T21:17:05Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Out of curiosity, would you have agreed the firing was justified if the lie was about something more innocuous? Say if it was if she played poker or has ever worn a skirt that ended more than 3 inches above the knee? Yes, I think so. She may refuse to answer; she has no right to lie. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/50 "2013-01-16T21:25:48Z")
It would seem that the “being unable to effectively do her job” argument is a bit, ah, premature. Conjecture, even. What’s the harm in letting her continue until she actually\* is\* a distraction? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/51 "2013-01-16T21:26:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I think so. She may refuse to answer; she has no right to lie. This is the same sort of nonsense that I heard so much of during the Clinton impeachment. “It’s not that he got a blowjob. It’s that he lied about it!” Lying about something like that is just a polite way of saying “None of your goddam business.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/52 "2013-01-16T21:27:58Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > It would seem that the “being unable to effectively do her job” argument is a bit, ah, premature. Conjecture, even. What’s the harm in letting her continue until she actually\* is\* a distraction? Children! Porn! Vaginas! Cell phones! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/53 "2013-01-16T21:28:29Z")
Did she lie? The lawyer in the article says she was unemployed when she was making films. The teacher might be dumb enough to lie about that, but I’d think the lawyer would be smart enough not to, since her employment history in public schools is presumably easy to check. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/54 "2013-01-16T21:30:50Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Out of curiosity, would you have agreed the firing was justified if the lie was about something more innocuous? Say if it was if she played poker or has ever worn a skirt that ended more than 3 inches above the knee? I think there is some ambiguity in this question. Is it: [ul] [li] If it were established that the teacher lied about playing poker/wearing a short skirt, and you were the deciding vote on the school board, would you vote to dismiss the teacher? (That is, do you think this dismissal is _managerially_ justified.)[/li][li] If it were established that the teacher lied about playing poker/wearing a short skirt, and you were the judge reviewing the dismissal, would you sustain the school board’s decision? (That is, do you think the school board was _legally_ permitted to dismiss the teacher — a question that does not reach the managerial wisdom of the policies whose violation led to the termination.) [/ul][/li] A court ruling finding an employer’s action legally permissible is not necessarily an endorsement of that action’s wisdom. Employers are permitted to run their businesses sensibly or idiotically (with an outer bound of certain labor law and discrimination law caveats). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/55 "2013-01-16T21:36:57Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Honestly, Simplicio, regardless of what the transgression is, if you can no longer effectively do your job, you lose your job. I don’t have anything against porn, but lots of other people do, and kids are immature little bastards. Fair enough. I think I agree regarding kids. If teachers, administrators, etc are keeping you from effectively doing your job based on your sexual history, then I disagree. Adults that can’t handle stuff like that professionally should be fired (or if they’re aggressive about it, sued for sexual harassment). Obviously you can’t really expect kids to be professional in the same way, so in that case I agree its appropriate to fire her _if it was demonstrably a problem_. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/56 "2013-01-16T21:40:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I think so. She may refuse to answer; she has no right to lie. Serious question that is not part of some ploy- she doesn’t have that right? Why not? Was she under oath at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/57 "2013-01-16T21:43:59Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > This is the same sort of nonsense that I heard so much of during the Clinton impeachment. “It’s not that he got a blowjob. It’s that he lied about it!” > > Lying about something like that is just a polite way of saying “None of your goddam business.” Not true. Certainly not in the Clinton case – when you are under oath, being asked questions in a deposition, you absolutely have no right to “politely” lie in an effort spare your questioner hearing the phrase, “None of your goddam business.” And not true here either. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/58 "2013-01-16T21:44:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > how do you think her effectiveness as a teacher would be when the kids are looking at pictures of her in a gang rape scene? Granted, when I was that age handheld phones with pictures on them were the stuff of sci-fi fantasies, so I’m not sure what the current rules are, but aren’t kids supposed to not be looking at anything on the phones during class–whether gangbanged teachers, lolcats or the latest paparazzi stills from C-SPAN? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/59 "2013-01-16T21:44:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A porn star is an immoral objectification of a person… Even if I believed that, how is what you’re doing any better? How do you justify declaring the _victim_ of objectification unfit to hold any job managed by a sufficiently puritanical asshole? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410/60 "2013-01-16T21:44:50Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Fair enough. I think I agree regarding kids. If teachers, administrators, etc are keeping you from effectively doing your job based on your sexual history, then I disagree. Adults that can’t handle stuff like that professionally should be fired (or if they’re aggressive about it, sued for sexual harassment). > > Obviously you can’t really expect kids to be professional in the same way, so in that case I agree its appropriate to fire her _if it was demonstrably a problem_. Yeah, I tend to agree with this. But, I can also see why a school administrator would rather not wait until it became a problem (which I am almost 100% sure it would). That said, it does set a pretty bad precedent wrt to sexual actions outisde of work. For example, could Kim Kardashian (whose voluntary sex tape was supposedly stolen and released), or Erin Andrews (of whom a naked video was taken without her knowledge) be fired because of their videos? What about if there wasn’t a video, but the teacher was known to sleep around with lots of (adult) people? Where do you draw the line? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/firing-upheld-of-middle-school-science-teacher-former-porn-star/647410.md?page=4)