"First Amendment Auditors" in Trader Joe's Parking Lots

No, I don’t think it’s easy at all to stay calm, disengage, and strategically find a more effective way to accomplish the objective in those sorts of situations. It’s easier to shout back and get angry. But less effective, especially since they count on it to further their agenda while you gain nothing at all from it. You’re not going to disrupt them, you’re only going to help them by escalating the situation.

Edit: SHOUT back, not shoot. Bad autocorrect :sweat_smile:

You have the same legal authority to disrupt as they do, but while they are trying to disturb the public and the property owners/managers, you are trying to disrupt them. Just because they are trying to start trouble doesn’t mean you have to let them get away with it. I say ruin the take and make them think twice.

They are quite literally ragebaiting you. Falling for it doesn’t ruin their take, it IS their take. That’s the kind of footage they set out to get in the first place and you’re just walking into their trap.

I don’t see how that helps at all. Can you explain your thought process here? What is supposed to happen next after you start shouting at them?

  1. It is what I shout that matters, being recorded telling the intended audience what is really going on, interruptive the narrative, so to speak.
  2. The big mystery here is why you want to ignore their dishonest and deceptive action and walk away, while trying so hard to stop me from disrupting their effort? I mean, if you are so sure nothing will come of their effort, then you should equally ignore my efforts too.

Wrestling with pigs is stupid for everyone but the pig.

And all that shouting? Easily edited out, muted, replaced with commentary mocking you. Well played, you completely showed them.

What a wonderful reason to just let the pigs run free. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Give up, give in, ignore. That has given us exactly what we deserve the last few decades, hasn’t it?

Confronting them, yelling and making a scene is exactly what they hope you do. So, uh congrats on doing what they want.

Fight smart. Do Not Feed The Trolls.

I am proposing that we try to starve the trolls.

By feeding them exactly what they want? Attention? Considering there’s no such thing as bad attention to a troll. You propose to starve them by giving them exactly what they want: interaction and attention.

Editing can fix the rest.

Honestly? Just because of this:

If this were happening between strangers in a random parking lot, ignoring both is exactly what I’d do.

The reason I’m trying to dissuade you in particular is just because I care about you as a fellow Doper and a name that I recognize. I couldn’t care less otherwise what two random strangers in some parking were shouting at each other. I just didn’t want to see someone I care about getting wrapped up in some stupid scheme set up by profiteers specifically to entrap them, that’s all.

YIKES, sorry, completely unrelated to this thread, I have to step away for a bit… hit-and-run just happened outside our house. Sorry, I’ll check back in later.

IANAL but I think there are two questions here…

  • Are store parking lots private property? Yes. Trader Joes could tell them to leave and call the police if they refuse (or use some degree of force to eject them? Maybe?)
  • Does that mean there is an expectation of privacy? No. You don’t have an expectation of privacy on your front lawn, even though it’s private property. Someone can record you there.

If you give them a good clip. You’ll be the one embarrassed when it goes viral.

They’ll make sure You look bad. It’s what they want. A completely deranged person screaming something at them.

Leave them alone. Don’t click on their videos. That how you starve them.

My roommate loves watching these types of videos. I’m not a fan.

They began in a way that is defensible, IMHO, like filming the police while on duty and such, based on the idea that cameras keep them honest in a country where the police aren’t trusted. They even caught some actual crimes.

But there isn’t a constant stream of those, so they expanded out to just going to public places as a test to see if people would attempt to make them leave. And they would get more and more provocative, “standing up for their rights.” It was clear to me they were trolling people for engagement.

I guess I can’t be surprised they’re showing up on private property now to provoke more people. Their audience tells them what they want. They’ll follow the law, and will leave when told to, but they’ll try and get as many reactions as they can.

I’ve not seen anyone try what Czarcasm is saying. I have seen people who were obviously upset telling they don’t consent to being recorded, and I could definitely see it going wrong, as they are skilled provocateurs (and I love ya, @Czarcasm, but I’ve seen how posters her can provoke you) but I don’t think someone calmly telling everyone what’s going on would make the video, unless they had nothing better. I don’t recommend it, but I also don’t think it’d be dangerous.

I do note that, while it is legal for them to be there and record, it’s not always legal for them to release the videos of other people, especially on channels being used for profit. There’s a reason that TV would make people sign releases.

The laws on it are weird, and people love their “candid camera” stuff and seeing people get upset. They provide what the old cop shows did.

I do not get what roomie sees in them, really. I think it started from wanting to know his rights, but he’s not the type who likes confrontation.

I will say not clicking on the videos and just ignoring them hasn’t worked yet. It sounds like DNFTT, which, sure, would work if people wouldn’t feed them. But people always do. The trolls escalate until they do.

It’s not just an Internet truism, but has expanded out into everyday life, including modern politics.

I don’t think it’d be unsafe, as they do have an image to maintain of being the calm person. But yeah, they’ll probably make you mad enough and get a reaction. I mean, if strangers on a messageboard can make us mad enough to need a Pit forum…

So, these guys just hang out in parking lots filming people and…what?

Do they pick fights? Aggressively get in people’s faces? Or are they just waiting for people who don’t realize there is no expectation of privacy in a parking lot to freak out?

I have no idea if this actually works but I’ve seen claims that the best counter is to stay near them and blast Disney music which ruins their videos. Disney will be able to strike the videos because of copyrights.

That’s actually genius.

If you’ve ever had two children in the back seat with one holding their finger a half-inch from the other chanting “I’m not touching you” you know what they’re doing. They’re rules lawyering to try to provoke a disproportionate reaction in order to get the other party in trouble.

Even more genius, YouTube itself provides a setting that will attempt to mute the copyright-offending music while leaving the spoken audio untouched, thereby ensuring Google and the fuckfaces can still profit from being evil shit stains on society.