# First book rejection letter! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430 "2011-10-12T16:06:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/21 "2011-10-17T17:13:31Z")
**smiling bandit** , have you read [Ira Glass on Creativity and Taste](http://writerunderground.com/2011/04/28/ira-glass-on-creativity-or-the-gap-between-our-taste-and-our-work/)? > [@Ira Glass](#): > > “What nobody tells people who are beginners — and I really wish someone had told this to me . . . is that all of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, and it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. > > But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase. They quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know it’s normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. > > It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.” Wise words. That said, you might have teh urge to write, but I’d suggest that next you get an urge to revise. Work with someone you trust to have your best interests at heart, and ask them to help you polish that first page. It’ll still look like trash to you, but if you want to get better, you need to gear some of your writing energy toward getting better instead of just toward being prolific. It’s harder work, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/22 "2011-10-17T17:52:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’ll still look like trash to you, but if you want to get better, you need to gear some of your writing energy toward getting better instead of just toward being prolific. It’s harder work, no doubt. I’d like to - but I have nobody like that. No, what irritates me is that I have been writing for years, and it does not seem to help. I look at people like Rowling or Lewis or even Tolkein (with his 40-years writing one book!), and I absolutely cannot fathom how they do it. The envy just _burns_. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/23 "2011-10-17T18:05:36Z")
I am certainly not a _writer_, but I like to read and I’d like to improve as a writer of fiction. MIT actually has some free stuff online from a [short story writing course](http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/writing-and-humanistic-studies/21w-755-writing-and-reading-short-stories-fall-2006/index.htm). If you’re really serious about writing, you should probably get connected with a local writers’ workshop. You could also submit a story here when \*\*Le Ministre de l’au-delà \*\*posts one of his SDMB short story anthologies. They usually feature some good writing and helpful critiques. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/24 "2011-10-17T19:18:31Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I’d like to - but I have nobody like that. I see three choices: 1. Get someone like that. 2. Quit writing. 3. Continue writing without someone like that and feeling bad about it. Figure out which option sounds best, then figure out what you need to do to make it happen. There may, of course, be other options I’m not considering. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/25 "2011-10-17T19:52:30Z")
I’ve written several novels and have gotten rejected more times than I could tell, honestly. The good thing though is that for every novel I get closer. The last one I wrote made one editor at a quality publishing house to meet me and we talked about the manuscript for an hour or so. Unfortunately, I was unable to edit the story the way the publisher had wished for, so ultimately, after several editors read it and discussed, it was rejected. The editor said that they want the first novel to _sell_, because if it doesn’t the ones following it seldom do, and they didn’t believe in my story as it turned out enough. The next time I’ll go all the way. It’s a long journey for me but I believe I’ll reach my goal eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/26 "2011-10-17T20:02:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If it came back this fast you have a problem with your first page. Figure out what it is and fix it before you send the book out again. > > And before you ask: yes, anybody who is experienced can tell by the first page. Or use the old writer’s trick of typing out a few pages of _For Whom the Bell Tolls_ and attached them to the beginning of your manuscript. This “hooks” the reader and by the time he gets past the Hemingway and into your work, he’s committed. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/27 "2011-10-17T20:02:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Figure out which option sounds best, then figure out what you need to do to make it happen. There may, of course, be other options I’m not considering. You’re assuming that the first option is _possible_. The only person I questioned on the matter - the single and solitary person I knew with the honesty, talent, and keen analytical mind to do it - took six months and still never got me anything of use. It’s a nice idea, but apart from begging English professors I’ve never met, I’m rather at a loss. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/28 "2011-10-17T20:12:20Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > You’re assuming that the first option is _possible_. The only person I questioned on the matter - the single and solitary person I knew with the honesty, talent, and keen analytical mind to do it - took six months and still never got me anything of use. > > It’s a nice idea, but apart from begging English professors I’ve never met, I’m rather at a loss. Seriously, is there no writers’ workshop in your area? I don’t belong to any, but I know of a couple and they are open to anyone. Just do a search, you’ll probably find something. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/29 "2011-10-17T20:21:49Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Seriously, is there no writers’ workshop in your area? I don’t belong to any, but I know of a couple and they are open to anyone. Just do a search, you’ll probably find something. There are online workshops as well now. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/30 "2011-10-17T20:27:55Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > You’re assuming that the first option is _possible_. Yes–and you are assuming it’s not. Do you see a pattern between how you’re dealing with this and how you deal with problems in your gaming group? I’m not trying to create drama, but it seems to me that you often perceive yourself helpless, and as a result don’t do things to change your circumstances. If instead you’d assume that what you want is possible, you might look a little harder for how to get what you want. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/31 "2011-10-19T00:42:52Z")
I have only one suggestion: Should you decide to file your rejection letters so you can pull them out later to smirk and laugh after signing your gajillion dollar publishing contract, make sure you title the file folder “The Fools!”. ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/32 "2011-10-19T04:57:03Z")
This may be more intended for academic papers, but if you enjoyed the rejection experience and are looking for more, one could do no better than [this venerable publication venue](http://www.universalrejection.org/). You won’t be disappointed! ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/33 "2011-10-19T05:08:01Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I’d like to - but I have nobody like that. > > No, what irritates me is that I have been writing for years, and it does not seem to help. I look at people like Rowling or Lewis or even Tolkein (with his 40-years writing one book!), and I absolutely cannot fathom how they do it. The envy just _burns_. Have you written a million words? For most people (not everybody) that’s about what it takes. In my case, although I had been writing for years, I had not been working hard at getting fiction right for years, and there is a difference. I would say it took me ten years before the words that came out on the page actually sounded like what I imagined in my head. But eventually I got it, somewhat, finished a book, got an agent, and got published. A dirty little secret: One of the books that inspired me, in a way. I read it because I heard the author speak at a signing, and outlined her publishing journey. I read her book. It sucked. It made me very determined. If she could get published, I could get published! And I did. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/34 "2011-10-19T05:22:04Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Whose point of view are we getting here? What I mean is, who is evaluating that Keinman looks much older, and that Conner Sabot’s death was unfortunate? One of the difficulties of 3rd-person narrative is keeping a consistent POV, which in this sample goes from the woman (briefly), and then I think to an omniscient narrator who is free to comment. Later the POV is Keinman himself. **Maserschmidt** has a good point here, **smiling bandit**. I want to suggest an exercise for you: Find something you’ve written, be it a complete short story, or a single scene of a few pages in a longer work and go through it, making sure that the POV is consistent for the whole thing. Why? While you may use multiple third person POVs in a story, you may not use them _in the same scene_. As you’re aware, writing requires a new paragraph for each change in speaker. Good writing (and we’re defining “good” as easy to follow) _also_ requires a scene break for each change of point of view. It’s true that a professional writer might not strictly adhere to this (a glaring and sloppy example of this is found about 2/3rds of the way through **The Cove** by Catherine Coulter) but if you pick up books by your favorite writers who use third person, you’ll find that 98% of them _do_ stick to this rule. Some of them, like George R. Martin use chapters to break up POV changes, and others throw in a couple of asterisks, but either way, they are very consistent through the whole scenes. This is a good place to work on improving your writing because it will increase clarity if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/35 "2011-10-19T11:24:34Z")
Why can’t you buy some How To books about writing? Or check some out at the library. A lot of them are really helpful. You said you can’t stop writing. That’s the first criteria for a writer, IMHO. The only thing is, it’s not easy. Like anything else done well, it takes a certain skill. It’s a craft. Study the basics of composition. (You know, the boring stuff.) You have to understand how something is made before you can build one yourself. I wish you all the luck in the world. There’s nothing more satisfying than finding That One Right Word. Here’s to the search. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/36 "2011-10-19T12:22:15Z")
I applaud your spirit! Have you read through [queryshark](http://queryshark.blogspot.com/)? Amusing and useful, for anyone pitching fiction. Your query has to be stellar. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/37 "2011-10-19T13:05:03Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > I applaud your spirit! > > Have you read through [queryshark](http://queryshark.blogspot.com/)? > Amusing and useful, for anyone pitching fiction. Your query has to be stellar. …or for anyone interested in Massachusetts wildlife. I do not think that link leads to where you think it leads. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/38 "2011-10-19T13:55:43Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Have you written a million words? For most people (not everybody) that’s about what it takes. Well, I’m probably at least a good chunk fo the way there, although I couldn’t count it at this point. > [@Becky2844](#): > > Why can’t you buy some How To books about writing? Or check some out at the library. My favorite is this one… > **[How Not to Write a Novel: 200 Classic Mistakes and How to Avoid Them-A...](https://www.amazon.com/Write-Novel-Them-Misstep-Misstep/dp/0061357952)** > > How Not to Write a Novel: 200 Classic Mistakes and How to Avoid Them-A Misstep-by-Misstep Guide \[Mittelmark, Howard, Newman, Sandra\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. How Not to Write a Novel: 200 Classic Mistakes and How to Avoid... > [@elfkin477](#): > > smiling bandit. I want to suggest an exercise for you: > Find something you’ve written, be it a complete short story, or a single scene of a few pages in a longer work and go through it, making sure that the POV is consistent for the whole thing. Yeah, but I don’t always get it right in the first draft. Usually, I keep one PoV for the entire book, although it is third-person. > [@Left hand of Dorkness](#): > > Yes–and you are assuming it’s not. Do you see a pattern between how you’re dealing with this and how you deal with problems in your gaming group? A thing may be possible in theory and not in practice. I cannot control what other people choose, and if they choose not to help, I walk away. No matter what I want, I spend no more than a minute on trying to change people’s minds. If they change them later, good. If not, fine. In this case, I don’t have a mentor available. Them’s thje breaks. I didn’t say I was pursuing no alternative method, but I’m not going to have anyone as described helping me. Unfortunately, all my options in that department either welched or died. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/39 "2011-10-19T15:24:48Z")
I admire your efforts Smiling Bandit. At least you have the nerve to try. I have several fiction novels started. Some on paper, some in my head. But I can never figure out how to finish them. As a matter of fact, this thread and the recent short story competition has encouraged me to try again. I may never have the courage to let anyone read my stuff, but who knows? Maybe this time, I’ll have better success. Keep writing. You can’t be any worse than some of the god awful books I’ve read in my life. Can you say Danielle Steele? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430/40 "2011-10-19T15:56:47Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > …or for anyone interested in Massachusetts wildlife. I do not think that link leads to where you think it leads. Whoops! Sorry. I’m posting now from my phone and it’s a pain to look up links. Google “query shark.” Definitely a worthwhile and often funny read for anyone approaching fiction agents. Written by an agent who brutally critiques queries she gets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-book-rejection-letter/599430.md?page=3)