# "First" Day of Summer Question... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 21, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572 "2013-06-21T18:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/1 "2013-06-21T18:08:40Z")
For all the people who think that the solstice marks the first day of Summer, is there any consensus on when they figure Midsummer is? ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/2 "2013-06-21T18:24:00Z")
The solstice can be colloquially referred to as midsumer, but it is actually the first day of the summer season astronomically. "Today, June 21, 2013, is officially the first day of summer according to what the calendar tells us. That is the beginning of astronomical summer. However, in the meteorological and climatological world, summer has already been in full swing for 20 days. " [http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/meteorological-versus-astronomical-summer—what’s-difference](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/meteorological-versus-astronomical-summer%E2%80%94what%E2%80%99s-difference) Also, this is anecdote but not data - but I’ve never heard anyone talk about midsummer as a fixed seasonal event like we do with the solstice, or a holiday. Maybe people say “the middle of the summer” but not “Midsummer” as a noun. If I said something about Midsummer to my friends they’d be like “Ok, Shakespeare…” ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/3 "2013-06-21T18:28:19Z")
> [@Hedda\_Rosa](#): > > The solstice can be colloquially referred to as midsumer, but it is actually the first day of the summer season astronomically. "Today, June 21, 2013, is officially the first day of summer according to what the calendar tells us. That is the beginning of astronomical summer. However, in the meteorological and climatological world, summer has already been in full swing for 20 days. " > > [http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/meteorological-versus-astronomical-summer—what’s-difference](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/meteorological-versus-astronomical-summer%E2%80%94what%E2%80%99s-difference) > > Also, this is anecdote but not data - but I’ve never heard anyone talk about midsummer as a fixed seasonal event like we do with the solstice, or a holiday. Maybe people say “the middle of the summer” but not “Midsummer” as a noun. If I said something about Midsummer to my friends they’d be like “Ok, Shakespeare…” No it is not. I know even astronomers, who really ought to know better, say this. But taking a purely astronomical definition of summer, that best such definition would be “the quarter of the year (91 days) where the sun’s declination at transit is at its highest”\* would still have the solstice as the middle of summer. Taking it from a meterological standpoint, the warmest ninety-one days typically range from the first week of June through just about Labor Day, thus validating the conventional definition of summer as Memorial Day through Labor Day (this is the best definition, by the way). - I know that in the tropics, the summertime transit declination decreases, as the sun passes poleward of zenith. But you get what I’m saying here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/4 "2013-06-21T18:38:45Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > - I know that in the tropics, the summertime transit declination decreases, as the sun passes poleward of zenith. But you get what I’m saying here. I mean altitude, not declination. Altitude decreases, declination does not, during the summer in the tropics. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/5 "2013-06-21T20:25:18Z")
Yeah, June 21 = “first day of summer” always bugged me. Summer for me is June, July and August. Sept-Nov is autumn, Dec-Feb is winter and Mar-May is spring. I think there is a Straight Dope column that addresses this. ETA: [Here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/161/is-it-true-summer-in-ireland-starts-may-1) it is. > [@Cecil](#): > > There is a widespread misconception in this country–which extends, I might note, to the makers of most calendars, dictionaries, and encyclopedias–that summer “officially” starts on the day of the summer solstice, June 21 or 22, which is the longest day of the year. Americans also believe (1) that there is some valid scientific reason for doing it that way, and (2) that everybody in the Northern Hemisphere does it that way, and always has. > > None of these things is true. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/6 "2013-06-21T20:28:34Z")
[The Master Speaks!](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/161/is-it-true-summer-in-ireland-starts-may-1) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/7 "2013-06-21T20:29:02Z")
Current thread that touches on [this subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694415) (although not obvious from the title.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/8 "2013-06-21T20:43:09Z")
Memorial Day is the first day of summer as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/9 "2013-06-21T21:41:16Z")
Folks living in the Southern Hemisphere would have a different view as to when summer begins. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/10 "2013-06-21T21:58:48Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Folks living in the Southern Hemisphere would have a different view as to when summer begins. As do people in Ireland where for us it begins on June 1st. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/11 "2013-06-21T22:24:37Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Folks living in the Southern Hemisphere would have a different view as to when summer begins. While that’s obviously true, there’s also the question of the specific day. In Australia, the convention is not to use the solstices and equinoxes, but to use whole months, so for us summer goes from 1st December to 28th or 29th February. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/12 "2013-06-21T22:31:15Z")
I go by the thermometer, not the calendar. If it’s May-Sept. and it’s hot, it’s summer. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/13 "2013-06-21T23:16:52Z")
Summer, as any child knows, clearly runs from the first day after school lets out to the last day before it starts again. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-day-of-summer-question/661572/14 "2013-06-22T00:12:24Z")
If one wishes an astronomical definition of summer, and wishes for it to, on average, consistently correspond to the meteorological definition of summer, then it makes sense to base the definition on the solstices and equinoces, as these are the particular measure of the year which maintains a constant phase relationship with seasonal meteorological changes. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that the solstice must be the first day of summer. It’s just as valid to declare the solstice to be the midmost point of summer, and nearly as valid to say something like “summer starts 21 days before the Solstice”.