# First fliers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 8, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295 "2008-08-08T16:16:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/1 "2008-08-08T16:16:13Z")
Cecil, I recall visiting a museum in Bridgeport, CT which claimed that a local resident built and flew an airplane in 1901. Any word as to the credibility of that claim? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/2 "2008-08-08T16:34:38Z")
A link to the column is appreciated. It’s this one: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/080808.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/080808.html) ---
**Author:** ![barbogas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@barbogas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbogas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/3 "2008-08-08T17:11:18Z")
Since the question was who was first in powered flight, it would have to be Santos-Dumont. Dumont is credited with the first controlled, powered flight. In 1901, he flew a dirigible around a pre-defined course that included the Eiffel Tower. For his efforts, Dumont was awarded the Deutsch de la Meurthe prize. ---
**Author:** ![Cactususan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@Cactususan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cactususan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/4 "2008-08-08T17:30:57Z")
18 October 1903: August Greth flew from San Francisco in an airship named the “California Eagle.” This was featured in an article in Scientific American of 7 November 1903. He beat the Wright Brothers by two months. For a photo & more info, see: [http://www.forensicgenealogy.info/contest\_128\_results.html](http://www.forensicgenealogy.info/contest_128_results.html) Or–main link:[Forensic Genealogy Book Homepage](http://www.forensicgenealogy.info/index.html) go to “Photo Quiz” on right, & scroll down to #128 (The Greth Airship). Susan Fortune Southern California ---
**Author:** ![protruding\_cobblestone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e4f/32.png) [@protruding\_cobblestone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protruding_cobblestone)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/5 "2008-08-08T17:52:39Z")
Cecil doesn’t even mention [Gustave\_Whitehead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Whitehead)? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/6 "2008-08-08T18:04:35Z")
I’ve been to the Whitehead exhibit at that museum\* and while it’s a nice little display of local history I found it entirely unconvincing as a demonstration of first flight. The Wiki article gives the objections. No photos, “eyewitness” accounts dating from 30 or more years later, no repeat flights, and a suspect design. Santos-Dumont, while his career is fascinating, is not in the contest since the qualification is always for “heavier-than-air” controlled flight, not merely powered flight. \*Although it’s not in Bridgeport, but one of the little towns along I95 into NYC. ---
**Author:** ![NagsYourHead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a87d85/32.png) [@NagsYourHead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NagsYourHead)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/7 "2008-08-08T18:37:19Z")
Hi Cecil- Almost correct! The Wright brothers flight attempts all took place on the dunes of Kill Devil Hills, adjacent to Kitty Hawk and site of the Wright Brothers National Memorial. Kitty Hawk was the location of the post office the brothers used to send messages to their father on their progress. You couldn’t possibly berate me for correcting such an egregious mistake, could you? Facts are facts… -NagsYourHead ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/8 "2008-08-08T19:18:31Z")
Welcome to the Straight Dope, **Nags**! When posting a comment on one of Cecil’s columns, it is customary to include a link to the original column. I believe you are referring to this one: [The Wright stuff? Who had the world’s first powered air flight?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/080808.html) Thanks for your input, and we hope you stick around! ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/9 "2008-08-08T19:23:39Z")
[QUOTE=NagsYourHead] Hi Cecil- Almost correct! The Wright brothers flight attempts all took place on the dunes of Kill Devil Hills, adjacent to Kitty Hawk and site of the Wright Brothers National Memorial. Kitty Hawk was the location of the post office the brothers used to send messages to their father on their progress. You couldn’t possibly berate me for correcting such an egregious mistake, could you? Facts are facts… -NagsYourHead [/QUOTE] I’ve merged this thread with a pre-existing one that discusses the same column. **Gfactor** Moderator ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/10 "2008-08-08T19:47:16Z")
As my Teemings article “First Flights”\* pointed out, (and Cecil says), Stringfellow did indeed successfully fly an unmanned steam-powered airplane of surprisingly modern design fifty years before the Wright Brothers. Obviously uncontrolled (and i can’t believe he never came up with a tail to give side-to-side stability. You’d think that a ship’s rudder would immediately suggest it.) [http://www.straightdope.com/teemings/issue15/calmeacham.html](http://www.straightdope.com/teemings/issue15/calmeacham.html) But, as I point out at the end, there were heavier-than-air flights by helicopter-like devices even earlier: > [@](#): > > So John Stringfellow was he first to build an engine-powered, heavier-than-air craft, right? And the first real man-made flight occurred in 1848. > > Wrong. In 1842, six years earlier than Stringfellow’s flight, W.H. Phillips of Britain produced a flyer powered by steam jets. The jets were powered by a burning mixture of charcoal, nitre, and gypsum, and they emerged from he tips of the rotors of the first steam-powered helicopter. It weighed twenty pounds and reportedly “flew up fast and crossed two fields.” (from Aviation by Charles H. Gibbs-Smith, 1970. Quoted in Fay). Vittorio Sarti of Italy had attempted to build a steam-powered helicopter in 1828, but without success. Philips’ “engine” was really just a rotor with angled vents at the end, like Hero’s aeropile, so it is not a reciprocating engine, like that built by Stringfellow. Still, Phillips’ helicopter was the first steam-powered heavier-than-air craft. > > If you don’t limit the power source to such powered engines, however, there were several helicopters powered by springs, tension bars, and the like. Cayley himself built one in 1796 ([Aerospaceweb.org | Helicopter Theory - Early History](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/helicopter/history.shtml) ), but he was preceded by the Frenchmen Launoy and Bienvenu, who demonstrated a whalebone-powered double-rotored helicopter at the Academie des Sciences in 1784. > > Of course, the very first heavier-than-air craft we have a record of didn’t have any sort of motor power. Toy “helicopters” consisting of a stick with a rotor on top, to be rotated between the palms or with a string are still available at toy stores and Museum shops. They were first recorded circa 320 CE by the Taoist alchemist Ko Hung in his Pao Phu Tzu.(Some websites attribute the design to Ko Hung, but it is clear from the text that he is describing an already-existing device.) How long before that it appeared is anyone’s guess, and its inventor (probably inspired by watching falling seed cases, like those of the maple) unknown. Who, for that matter, built the first paper airplane? By the way, regarding Gustave Whitehead, I can’t find the site now, but someone duplicated his device and successfully flew it a few years ago. Here’s a reference to it: [http://airsports.fai.org/jun98/jun9805.html](http://airsports.fai.org/jun98/jun9805.html) The original site had pictures of the device in flight. It does prove that Whitehead flew first, but it certainly makes it plausible. (Of course, Curtiss was able to fly the Langley Aerodrome, too, after he rebuilt it and made some changes. I don’t know how faithful the Whitehead reconstruction was.) \*Heyyyyyyyyy! – the title’s the same! ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/11 "2008-08-08T19:48:28Z")
Thanks for the wikipedia link to Whitehead - I forgot the name, so I didn’t do a very good job of looking up the details. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/12 "2008-08-08T19:52:27Z")
Here are some photos of the Whitehead replica in flight: [http://www.weisskopf.de/research.htm](http://www.weisskopf.de/research.htm) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/13 "2008-08-09T06:28:07Z")
Sure, it’d work if you stretched the CG out further forward, as is shown in the 3/4 view photo vs the in-flight photo (did they use two aircraft, one conforming to Whitehead’s design vs one that would work?), but I’m kinda iffy about it being based on his planview. However, there was a ferment in the air and the first ones to truly harness it we the winners. For my money that was Orville and Wilbur. And if you know you have twins coming, just try to convince your wife to name then Orville and Wilbur. It’s best I had daughters. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-fliers/459295/14 "2008-08-15T16:34:59Z")
Cecil makes an offhand comment about how the Wright’s behavior during the patent fight made them appear pretty unsympathetic. I thought that the major focus of the patent fight was the claim that the Langley Aerodrome flew first, bolstered by such evidence as the flights by Curtis’ reworked Aerodrome, all funded by the Federal gov’t via the Smithsonian. It’s hard to imagine anyone dealing with this kind of chicanery not exhibiting at least some bitterness. Esp. when it seemed that the motives of the people backing the fraud were just as mercenary. Was there more to the Wright Brothers’ unsympathetic behavior than justifiable anger and frustration?