# First gay "first kiss" in US Navy happens; world doesn't end **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016 "2011-12-21T23:52:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/81 "2011-12-22T16:21:16Z")
What complex issue? People love each other. News at 11. It’s just not that big a deal! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/82 "2011-12-22T16:30:01Z")
Missed edit wondow- It’s like that quote from Gold Meir: when told that violence against women was a problem, her (male) advisers wanted to put a curfew on women to keep them safe. Her reply? It’s men committing the crimes- put the curfew on them. If you that are concerned about your kids seeing men/men or women/women kiss, keep your kids at home. But leave the people who are doing absolutely nothing wrong alone. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/83 "2011-12-22T16:43:18Z")
I totally get the difference between thinking something SHOULD be easy to tell your kids, and something ACTUALLY being easy to tell your kids. I got my kid two books because I just couldn’t do it all myself. But “some boys like boys and some girls like girls”? I’ve answered harder questions about the phases of the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/84 "2011-12-22T16:52:53Z")
Frankly, I’m not comfortable with PDA at all. I think straight people kissing in public is inappropriate - a chaste kiss at the end of a wedding ceremony is about it. And I certainly don’t want to be exposed to teenagers sucking each others faces off - a common enough occurance. And, of course, we have a growing population of Indian Americans who find PDA highly inappropriate. So how about we don’t treat it as a homo/heterosexual issue at all and just ban kissing in public. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/85 "2011-12-22T17:11:16Z")
Better yet, let’s make all physical contact in public illegal. No hand-holding. No hugging. Hell, let’s make eye contact illegal! Bundle women up in robes so the sight of an ankle doesn’t inflame men (and women who are inclined that way.) If a particular subculture has a problem with the way we do things here, they can bloody well go back where they came from, be it the subcontinent or 1950. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/86 "2011-12-22T17:14:46Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Because their right to live like the rest of us, unashamed and unafraid, is a bit more important than your right to not talk to your own kids. > > (edited to add: has this thread _really_ made it this far without a single, “Since when are there GAY people in the NAVY?” joke?) “I doubt that was really the first gay kiss in the Navy, if you know what I mean!” _wink wink_ ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/87 "2011-12-22T17:21:01Z")
Hey, they’re sailors. They’ve been on a ship for the last umpteen weeks while scraping everything that doesn’t move and looking at lots of water in their spare time. Let 'em have a kiss! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/88 "2011-12-22T17:31:34Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Wow…I can just imagine the “uncomfortable position” those people with their “1950’s values” are placed in when they see a NEGRO thinking he’s the equal of a white man, such as, oh, the freaking President of the United States? > > Or a woman demanding equal pay for equal work. > > Or Jews and Muslims thinking they have a right to believe in anything other than a Wonder Bread-white Jesus. > > And what about those Poles, Italians, Irish, and…dare I mention among polite ears…the MEXICANS? Why do we let these “people” mix with the rest of us? > > The clue phone is ringing, and when the people with “1950’s values” pick it up (after first, I imagine, answering their shoe, the toaster, and perhaps a small dog), they’ll hear a pre-recorded message saying “These women are **servicewomen** , potentially putting their fucking lives on the line to protect the people of the United States of America, everyone from the aforementioned President right down to the lowest, bigoted, backwards corncob-cmokin’ cousin-pokin’ hillbilly. Allow them please the dignity of being allowed to express that most positive and constructive of all human emotions - if you haven’t taken notes, that emotion is known as love.” Excellent post! Ask the mods first, but please post the the number for the The Clue Phone™ as soon as you have it working! ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/89 "2011-12-22T17:39:16Z")
“1950s values,” in this context at least, are disgusting, small minded and go against the spirit of the founders of America. In the 1950s, it was illegal for a black person and a white person to marry one another in several states. People who were in favor of keeping those laws on the books are identical in every way to people who are against same sex marriage now. Identical. Your children, if they know about your views, will likely keep that fact about you to themselves when they are adults. They will do that because it they will be ashamed of you and rightly so. How dare you suggest that the brave people who serve in our military shouldn’t show affection for the person that they love so that they won’t offend backwards thinking bigots. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/90 "2011-12-22T17:49:12Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The fact that it’s two women definitely diminishes its significance to me. Most straight people _seem_ to be far more tolerant of two women kissing than two men kissing. While I’m definitely happy for any positive movement for anybody’s rights, I can’t help but think what you’re saying. Mostly because my Facebook feed was full of guys posting about how “hot!!!” it was. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/91 "2011-12-22T18:10:30Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I, for one, welcome our new gay military overlords. It’s been tried. > **[Sacred Band of Thebes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes)** > > The Sacred Band of Thebes (Ancient Greek: Ἱερός Λόχος, Hierós Lóchos) was an elite heavy infantry of select soldiers, allegedly consisting of 150 pairs of male couples which formed the elite force of the Theban army in the 4th century BC, ending Spartan domination. > Its predominance began with its crucial role in the Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC. It was annihilated by Philip II of Macedon in the Battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC. > The earliest surviving record of the Sacred Band by name was in 324 BC,... 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/92 "2011-12-22T18:16:57Z")
I guess I’m off in left field. I draw the line at a different point. You might frown against other “more unorthodox” (for lack of a better term) behaviors (polygamy, incest, lower age of consent, whatever), but I’m sure most would draw the line somewhere, beyond which you’d “prefer those behaviors not be made publicly”. Its not like I said they’d need to be outlawed. Just not public or ostentatious. So we’ll have to agree to disagree. But I can’t help feeling there is a difference between us. Except perhaps for Una, I feel like my sharing a viewpoint which someone thinks might be discriminatory triggers scorn, moral superiority, and attacks from many of you, whereas I can understand your viewpoint and don’t think less of you. So even if my social perspective is more conservative - or even outdated - as many of you think, I feel like I’m the one who is more tolerant of differing views. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/93 "2011-12-22T18:21:50Z")
Did you actually put homosexuality and incest on the same continuum of “orthodoxy” where some will draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/94 "2011-12-22T18:27:31Z")
So, you think you’re being tolerant by understanding that we don’t find homosexuality at all wrong, and we’re being intolerant because we think you’re a bigot. _Okay_ then, good to know. Seriously though- the clue phone is ringing- you might want to get that? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/95 "2011-12-22T18:31:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Or, the gay guy or the Jewish guy or the handicapped guy or the black guy or the red-headed stepchild guy can keep quiet with their unique concerns, let mainstream discussion take place, and stop insisting that “we’re all equal and all norms and values are relative” because they are not. That’s Buchanans opinion in another thread involving gays. Just something to be aware of when discussing these issues with him/her. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/96 "2011-12-22T18:31:58Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I guess I’m off in left field. I draw the line at a different point. No, no, right field. Or maybe it’s just the back of the field. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/97 "2011-12-22T18:43:08Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Its not like I said they’d need to be outlawed. Just not public or ostentatious. So we’ll have to agree to disagree. But what about what\*\* Dangerosa\*\* implied, that the only truly fair way of dealing with _that_ would be to keep ALL such displays of affection, BOTH gay AND straight, out of public view? After all, I’m all for maintaining the social expectation that any actual sex (or even intense groping) happen in private, whatever the orientation of the parties. But come on, a hug and a kiss on the dockside? What the heck’s so ostentatious about that? You see, we DO see a difference of nature, not of degree, between a consenting relationship between two competent adults, and the sorts of family-disrupting and exploitative behaviors you place in your list in that post. It’s not the same continuum. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/98 "2011-12-22T18:51:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, it may be minor, but it’s a good point - a very photogenic couple indeed, and such things do matter when it comes to public support. The picture reminds me of the famous one of a sailor kissing a nurse at the end of WW2! I foresee a spike in recruitment 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/99 "2011-12-22T19:30:12Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > But I can’t help feeling there is a difference between us. Except perhaps for Una, I feel like my sharing a viewpoint which someone thinks might be discriminatory triggers scorn, moral superiority, and attacks from many of you, whereas I can understand your viewpoint and don’t think less of you. So even if my social perspective is more conservative - or even outdated - as many of you think, I feel like I’m the one who is more tolerant of differing views. _Might_ be discriminatory? Are you serious. You are proposing different rules for same sex couple than for opposite sex couples. This is, by definition, discriminatory. It’s unacceptable and un-American. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/100 "2011-12-22T20:16:48Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > So we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t agree to that! 🙂 But seriously, for a moment. > [@](#): > > But I can’t help feeling there is a difference between us. Except perhaps for Una, I feel like my sharing a viewpoint which someone thinks might be discriminatory triggers scorn, moral superiority, and attacks from many of you, whereas I can understand your viewpoint and don’t think less of you. So even if my social perspective is more conservative - or even outdated - as many of you think, I feel like I’m the one who is more tolerant of differing views. Being more tolerant of differing views isn’t necessarily a positive trait. While I wouldn’t ask for their rights to be taken away, I don’t have any particular tolerance or respect for white supremacists, for example. Perhaps someone else’s view is otherwise and they don’t find racist perspectives distasteful at all – would this be a positive trait, in your mind? Sorry, but you don’t get points for this sort of “tolerance”. Ultimately you’re not very tolerant of our viewpoints, now are you, calling them attacks and finding them objectionable? It’s just meaningless hair-splitting. We just disagree on this issue. The point is, you seem to think that it’s a reasonable expectation to ask homosexual couples to hide away, and to maintain a different standard of decorum than heterosexual couples. You seem to believe that this is a completely fair request and that they should have anticipated doing so in advance, out of this same sense of decorum. The rest of us are pointing out to you that no, it is not reasonable to ask this. It is considered offensive to expect people to have to act as if there is something wrong or uncomfortable about having a sex-same relationship, and that a kiss – not excessive PDA, but a kiss that would elicit nothing but positive responses if between a man and a woman – should somehow be inappropriate because of children being present. If you want to believe, and to teach your children, that homosexuality is wrong – that is up to you. You’re certainly welcome to tell them, too, in accordance with “1950s values”, that women should stay at home when they’re married and don’t belong in the workplace. If you ask me, though, to hide from your kids the fact that I am gainfully employed, and instead just keep it discreet as if I’m doing something wrong, I’m going to say no and not be sorry. Your values, your problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016.md?page=6)