# First gay "first kiss" in US Navy happens; world doesn't end **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016 "2011-12-21T23:52:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/101 "2011-12-22T20:42:25Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Your values, your problem. Precisely what I was thinking. I salute those two sailors for not kowtowing to the bigoted and narrow-minded. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/102 "2011-12-22T21:27:08Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I can’t believe that almost no one of the 10-15 responders doesn’t agree that this situation can force a conversation about an important topic before a parent would otherwise want to broach it based on a child’s readiness…and as a result, prompt parents to prefer not to have such gay public displays. > > Why not show some restraint, hug, and save the kiss for when they are alone, so that families on the dock who happen to have “1950s” values aren’t put into this uncomfortable position? Little kids are amazingly open and tolerant. They just go on basic values, like love and warmth and food and happiness and playmates. They don’t give a shit about such silly things as “This person is not like me therefore I do not like them”. Only adults do that. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/103 "2011-12-22T21:36:07Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I feel like I’m the one who is more tolerant of differing views. You want gay people to hide away, not even letting them share a quick, chaste kiss, and you think \*you’re \*the more tolerant one? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/104 "2011-12-22T21:57:33Z")
\*\*Buchanan \*\* - For the sake of your children and your family I hope you keep any homophobic sentiments and attitudes to yourself, or better yet, change them. If one of your children happen to turn out to be gay, you are going to cause them a lot of pain and suffering if you make them feel like being gay is something that is wrong, or that makes you feel uncomfortable. I am begging you, pleading you, please do not make the mistake that my father and many other parents make with regards to raising their children. Accepting and affirming the rights for same-sex couples will not make your children turn gay, but if they do happen to be gay, it will make your relationship with that child so, so much better, and it will make their lives so much happier. So please, knock this off, for the sake of your kids. Take the advice of everyone else here if the situation and question comes up from your 4 year old, and treat the situation calmly and rationally. Explain to your child that people do not choose who they are attracted to and who they fall in love with, and that’s the end of it. Please, please, please listen to what everyone else is saying here. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/105 "2011-12-22T22:19:58Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I guess I’m off in left field. I draw the line at a different point. You might frown against other “more unorthodox” (for lack of a better term) behaviors (polygamy, incest, lower age of consent, whatever), but I’m sure most would draw the line somewhere, beyond which you’d “prefer those behaviors not be made publicly”. **Its not like I said they’d need to be outlawed. Just not public or ostentatious.** So we’ll have to agree to disagree. What’s this “they” you speak of. Like it or not, (hetero) sexuality is public and ostentatious in day to day living and has been for decades. Advertising, daytime TV, cheerleaders, sexualized children’s beauty contests (a la JonBenet Ramsey), most media directed towards teenagers, etc - very often has sexual undertones. And in the case under discussion, there isn’t anything sexual about it - just a homecoming kiss between two people who love each other, who haven’t seen each other in quite a while. Serving our country, no less! If you’re heterosexual, it’s OK - expected, even - to have a photo of your SO or spouse on your desk at work. It’s OK to bring them to work parties, picnics or other business-type functions or trips. It’s OK to announce your marriage or anniversary. But you expect same-sex couples to pretend that they are single and androgynous? In 2012, and after the repeal of DADT? That’s just…unrealistic. And incest is absolutely not in the same spectrum as homosexuality, seriously. > [@Buchanan](#): > > But I can’t help feeling there is a difference between us. Except perhaps for Una, I feel like my sharing a viewpoint which someone thinks might be discriminatory triggers scorn, moral superiority, and attacks from many of you, whereas I can understand your viewpoint and don’t think less of you. So even if my social perspective is more conservative - or even outdated - as many of you think, I feel like I’m the one who is more tolerant of differing views. I don’t understand how you can say you’re more tolerant. Really? You’re the one who wants gay people to Don’t Ask and Don’t Tell - for _your_ comfort. Nobody is asking you to pretend that your spouse doesn’t exist, but you want gay people to do just that - so you can delay telling your children that sometimes people of the same sex have romantic relationships, because you don’t like the idea. Have whatever views you want and voice them loud and proud - I mean that sincerely. I support your right to voice your opinion whenever you see fit, whether or not I agree. In fact, I was in the USNR and would have fought for your freedom to do just that, blah and etc. However, you want gays and lesbians (and those who believe in their rights) to censor themselves just so you can pretend like it’s still 1958 - and you think _you’re_ the tolerant one? The mind, it boggles. Also, Una’s post was awesome. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dolomite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8491ac/32.png) [@Dolomite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dolomite)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/106 "2011-12-22T22:42:52Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > I guess I’m off in left field. I draw the line at a different point. You might frown against other “more unorthodox” (for lack of a better term) behaviors (polygamy, incest, lower age of consent, whatever), but I’m sure most would draw the line somewhere, beyond which you’d “prefer those behaviors not be made publicly”. Its not like I said they’d need to be outlawed. Just not public or ostentatious. So we’ll have to agree to disagree. It is a Navy tradition. Perhaps if you have a problem with a such a public kiss no matter who is kissing, don’t take your children to the ship’s homecoming. Or show up after said tradition takes place. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/107 "2011-12-22T23:55:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, it may be minor, but it’s a good point - a very photogenic couple indeed, and such things do matter when it comes to public support. The picture reminds me of the famous one of a sailor kissing a nurse at the end of WW2! You mean [this one?](http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/7/2011/12/3f0e6a083582625ae0a757641aa27297/340x.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/108 "2011-12-23T00:00:20Z")
OK - good points, and my viewpoint has changed - just a little bit. I think I could tell my children without so much of an issue. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/109 "2011-12-23T00:15:58Z")
Actual witnessed conversation between my friend and her four-year-old: > [@](#): > > Mummy, can a man and a man get married? > > - Yes. > > What about a lady and a lady? > > - Yes. > > Oh, good because I didn’t have enough toys. (Swaps her toys around to allow a same-sex ‘wedding’.) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/110 "2011-12-23T00:17:36Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Actual witnessed conversation between my friend and her four-year-old: And such the world changes, for the better. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/111 "2011-12-23T00:20:24Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > OK - good points, and my viewpoint has changed - just a little bit. I think I could tell my children without so much of an issue. Good for you! And as a parent one really needs to be ready for questions to come up when you were NOT planning to address them – kinda paradoxical, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/112 "2011-12-23T00:30:15Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > OK - good points, and my viewpoint has changed - just a little bit. I think I could tell my children without so much of an issue. Really? OK, that’s very cool. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/113 "2011-12-23T00:42:15Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > OK - good points, and my viewpoint has changed - just a little bit. I think I could tell my children without so much of an issue. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/114 "2011-12-23T01:38:40Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Good for you! > And as a parent one really needs to be ready for questions to come up when you were NOT planning to address them – kinda paradoxical, ain’t it? And frankly, homosexuality was the easy one. Alcohol, drugs, sex - piece of cake. Financial issues and developing a work ethic - ongoing (like the rest), but not difficult to broach. The hard one was genocide. I really wasn’t ready for that when it came up. Racism was tough, too. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/115 "2011-12-23T02:15:33Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Little kids are amazingly open and tolerant. They just go on basic values, like love and warmth and food and happiness and playmates. They don’t give a shit about such silly things as “This person is not like me therefore I do not like them”. Only adults do that. I think that’s totally untrue. Little kids can be unbelievably brutal to each other. They are totally capable of being vindictive, nasty, hateful little monsters, and they are _eminently_ capable of singling out another kid for needless torment. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/116 "2011-12-23T02:39:46Z")
Yes, but it’s usually because the other kids has cooties, not because they are a different color or have two daddies. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/117 "2011-12-23T02:42:29Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > OK - good points, and my viewpoint has changed - just a little bit. I think I could tell my children without so much of an issue. I had anticipated a more close-minded approach based on your original post. Good for you to listen with reason and logic (even if it’s just a little bit). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/118 "2011-12-23T02:45:56Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > I had anticipated a more close-minded approach based on your original post. Good for you to listen with reason and logic (even if it’s just a little bit). Well, we don’t exactly know _what_ he’s going to tell his kids… ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/119 "2011-12-23T02:50:04Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > There were young kids - toddlers - on the dock, waiting for their. parents to arrive. Homosexual public displays of affection trigger uncomfortable conversations with your children. If I’m not ready to explain to my 4 year old that there can be “two princes” or “two princesses”, now I have to. This is a problem for me. I sympathize, Buchanan. But the wheels of history are turning. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016/120 "2011-12-23T02:57:19Z")
In the Navy, yes, you can sail the seven seas. In the Navy, yes, you can put your mind at ease. In the Navy, come on now people, make a stand. In the Navy, can’t you see we need a hand. In the Navy, come on, protect the motherland. In the Navy, come on and join your fellow, man. In the Navy, come on, people, and make a stand. In the Navy, in the Navy. 😃 😃 😃 Congratulations, gay sailors! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-gay-first-kiss-in-us-navy-happens-world-doesnt-end/607016.md?page=7)