Yes.
Seriously, this has always bothered me as well. The course of this thread seems to indicate my fears are true: There is no consensus, so anyone who uses the family of terms we’re discussing opens the door to much confusion. It’s best to be explicit.
In Hawaii, it is understood that the first generation Japanese born here are called nisei-those born American. Those who first arrived are called Issei. The sansei are the grandchildren. This is the generation who when play soldiers would fight as the Americans vs. the Japanese. :eek: Of course, if these immigrants married islanders, they didn’t usually consider themselves nisei or sansei.
I can’t find a definitive answer on the genealogy sites, and would have to send a query to someone, but as a genealogist myself, I always assume that a ‘first-generation American’ is someone who is born here of immigrant parents.
My wife and I don’t even agree on this, and we both are the grandchildren of immigrants.
In my family, it was very clear that the grandparents were “immigrants” and their children were “first-generation” Americans.
My wife is Japanese-American, and to her it was equally clear that her Issei grandparents were first-generation Americans. We’ve simply agreed that I am “second generation” and she is “third generation.”
Exactly what I was thinking. This is like the whole “next” controversy. People us the words both ways, although I have always used it to mean “first generation” as the actual immigrants, and “second generaiont” as the ones born here.
From glancing over this thread, it sounds like there’s a break between European immigrants and Asian immigrants. My parents came from Korea, and we consider them to be first generation. Kids who were born in Korea but pretty much raised up in America are considered 1.5 generation, and kids (like me) who were born and raised here in America are 2nd generation.
Well, I’m a European voice added to your Asian voice, audiobottle. I think it has more to do with the level of professional study in the social sciences. The only cite of actual social science scholars in this thread is the mention Penchan’s professors, who agreed with us. Maybe it’s because Asian-Americans reach higher education levels. Or maybe I have Asian characteristics I hadn’t known about.
I am +80% sure that the Washington Post uses this meaning of 1st generation - anecdotally so did I.
(Like *biweekly *or bimonthly there seems to either a change orthere always has been - dual meanings - which I never would have guessed if not for this board)
In my mind, if you moved to a country after you were 10, you are first generation. If you arrived in the country before you were 5 (including being born there), you are second generation. Between 5 and 10 is fuzzy. Based on long experience with immigrants, if you are immersed in (say) white culture before you are 5, then you will “think white” and embody a large chunk of white ideals. If you come after you are 10, you generally retain the ability to read/write/speak in the old language, read novels in the old language and be generally aware of the culture.
IMHO, it’s very much a matter of deep cultural values. It’s hard to describe to someone who is not an immigrant but there is a marked difference that comes between 5 and 10.