First grade math question

These threads always make me wonder how many people have kids. My daughter is in 4th grade but I’ve been there for every piece of homework since kindergarten. I just asked her about first of year assessments and her reply was “OMG, those tests with the questions about things you haven’t learned yet? Those are always sooo harrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.” (that may seem like a lot of r’s but if you knew her you’d be asking “why so few r’s? Is she feeling sick or something”)

She goes to great schools with good communication and they always send a note home about getting plenty of sleep and a good breakfast before tests, but with assessments like this, they always explain that the tests will be covering things that they’re going to be learning throughout the year and they’re not expected to do well. They explain it to the kids too so they don’t get discouraged if they do poorly.

They are meant to assess what the students know and, compared to end of year assessments or testing, to show how much improvement has been made. I think this particular question would tell the teacher which students don’t understand it at all, which students hear them say “make a ten…” and figure out how to make a ten, and which students hear them say “…to solve 15 -7” and figure the whole thing out.

Oh, and also, I can’t say for sure she’s ever brought home an assessment like this but kids pretty much bring home every single piece of paper their pencil ever touches. I mean, Every. Single. Piece. If I forget to look at them for a couple of weeks, there can easily be a 3 inch stack of papers on the desk in her bedroom.

And this isn’t just a first-grade thing. I just took a workplace training that had a pre-test full of obscure questions on stuff I hadn’t learned yet. And by the end of the course, I magically knew the answers.

It’s a useful mechanism for planning what to focus on, identifying who may been extra help, and above all being able to prove that people came out of your class better informed than when they came in. Without the pre-test, you can only speculate about what they’ve learned.

FWIW, I wish someone had taught me these methods. I had to make them up myself, and frankly the versions I’ve come up with are clunky and unreliable. I wish I’d just been told this was okay to do from the beginning.

Elementary school math specialist here, in NYS (but not NYC). I also write textbooks, including a lot of math ones. So this is sort of my bailiwick.

A few points, mainly to do with context. Which, as many people have correctly noted, is a lot of what’s missing here.

First, this question is very much a Common Core question. The CC, as you all probably know, is a set of standards much more than a curriculum, but it does occasionally allude to specific methods. This is one of those times. From Grade 1 “Operations and Algebraic Thinking,” standard C.6, “Add and subtract within 20…Use strategies such as…decomposing a number leading to ten (e.g. 13 - 4 = 13 - 3 - 1 = 10 - 1 = 9)…” That’s exactly the process used in the question.

You may think that this is a rather silly thing to require kids to do–isn’t just getting the answer all that counts? Well, we do want kids to commit these basic facts to memory. But we have had a tendency in the past to jump the gun on this, allowing kids to memorize before they understand. In my career I have seen any number of kids who have learned these facts by heart. Many of them did that instead of having strategies based on the relationships between the numbers. Many–not all–of these kids do well in first and second grade math based on this ability to memorize. Many–not all–of them noticeably fall off in fourth, fifth, sixth grade, when there’s too much to memorize and the kids with the deep understanding begin to shine. So, from where I sit, posters like even sven and Ivory Tower Denizen are exactly right–these are important strategies which should be taught explicitly.

The question asks kids not to find the answer to 15 - 8, but to analyze the process. Again, you may or may not find this helpful; in my experience, it is *very *helpful for nearly all kids. Yes, it’s kind of meta. Yes, it may be different from how you learned it. Yes, it helps kids understand math in a deeper and more thoughtful way. It should be noted that this is the trend in other disciplines as well. Kids are no longer asked to read a passage and simply answer “What was Mr. Brewer’s opinion of pigeons?” Rather, they are increasingly asked to identify the line that gives Mr. Brewer’s opinion, or the form of argument that Mr. Brewer is using when he gives his opinion…and this at younger ages than used to be the case.

Back to the question. We can always quibble about the wording, but once you have looked at the Common Core standard it should be clear that there is only one accurate answer to the question: 15 - 5 - 2. Not only does that answer accurately reflect what’s happening in the pictures (we start with 15, we cross out 5 to get down to 10, then we cross out two more to get down to eight), but the others don’t work. 10 - 2 does not show “how to make a ten”; it only shows what happens after you have made the ten. 15 - 5 does not “solve 15 - 7”; it only shows how to get down to that ten. And 10 - 5 - 2 does not give the correct answer of 8.

Because I do this professionally, the answer is obvious to me…which does not mean it will be obvious to you. I am an expert in “Common Core math for first graders,” the way you may be an expert on football plays or cryptic crosswords or medical diagnoses, depending on your job and your hobby; I wouldn’t expect to “see” what you see in your areas any more than I would expect you to see what I see in mine. (Until you learn the “code,” cryptic crosswords are just about completely bewildering, for example.) So I can’t stress enough what several people said above: we have trouble with this question only because we’re not used to it. If you had sat through instruction in this method, you would have done a variety of problems that looked just like this one, along with a bunch of other related ones, and it would be easy to pick out the correct answer. This is a perfectly fair question for a first grader who has learned this method.

[For the record, though, two things. First: the problem is poorly set up. It looks like the two answer choices on the left go with Step 1 and the two on the right go with Step 2. That threw a few posters, and reasonably so. Also: these kinds of strategy questions don’t lend themselves terribly well to a multiple choice format, which also adds a bit to the apparent clunkiness of the question. If you really want to know if kids can use this method, better to actually observe them using it, but that’s not all that efficient.]

One more thing–I am surprised to hear that this question is being used on a pretest. Nothing wrong with pretests, for all the reasons said above. But this question, as some posters point out, is so heavily based on learning a specific method that it’s hard to imagine most kids getting it right; plenty of very strong math thinkers will miss this question at the start of first grade, since they didn’t learn this particular language in kindergarten. Obviously, if it *is *being used that way, then it’s being used that way. I wouldn’t do it myself, and there’s a good chance it isn’t supposed to be used like that, and I don’t suppose you’ll get good information out of it. But if it’s used after the unit on subtraction, it is going to be informative indeed.

As I understand the question, it asks how to make 10 be part of a (just one possible) solution for 8. So it’s 10-2, which is what step 2 seems to show.

I think it would have been better worded as “which one shows how to solve 15-7 by making a ten?”. That makes it clearer that the question is asking for the solution, by way of a certain method, rather than looking for an intermediate step.

The pretests seem silly to me, too, but only because I can’t see how the data is useful. You’re going to generally know what the class knows. Knowing what individuals know won’t help you because public school teaches at the class level.

It would be far more helpful as a way of sorting kids into the best class, one that can cover what they need to know. But U.S. public schools don’t have separate classes per subject at this level, so I can’t see how they could do that.

I just don’t see how these sorts of evaluations are useful for a single teacher who has to teach an entire class.

Having gone through the K-12 system in US public schools with my kids (my youngest is a senior), of course they stratify kids within a single class. Remember reading groups? Well they do that for math as well. All during my kids primary years there were kids doing math at different levels with different assignments. Rarely are teachers lecturing in front of the whole class at this age. Kids are working in small groups with the teacher based on level.

Those of us with kids are saying how typical and normal this is, and that it works.

I would say that should be:

I remember dinging beginning programmers circa 1980 in program reviews because they left out parenthesis like this. (Though those were usually expressions involving much more than subtration operations.) They would work correctly, since the computer had a default order for doing operations, but this could confuse future maintenance programmers, so we made the programmer change it.

It’s a horrible question to pose as a multiple choice though. The only way to not have completely improbably options is to have “trick options” that really test if you can decode what’s being asked. Testing whether you’ve grasped the method requires a question without options.

the_diego, please be more careful about quoting people. In post #44, you quoted a sentence from the test as if I wrote it.

x-ray vision, you say in post #21 that you got the test from the parent of a first-grade student. How did the parent get the test? Did the student bring the test home? Did the parent get it from the teacher? Did the parent get it from another parent? Did the parent get it from an E-mail about the test? Or did they get it in some other way? If you don’t know, please ask the parent.

I think it would be better to ask
“which one matches the pictures. The pictures are solving 15-7”.

But anyway any way you ask the question, the answers given are equivalent of “which is the correct and full workings”… which smacks of “must show working”.

Because people need data. It is one thing to say “students kind of did better at the end of the year, I think” and “students saw an 80% improvement over baseline.” With actual data, you can do things like compare across classes, evaluate different approaches, and get to the core of what actually works.

And how are you going to know that?

OP is talking about beginning first grade only, and the solution to the OP problem is one of those that IMO no one would get.

I suspect otherwise.

I said far less than 1%.

Okay, obeying the spirit of the challenge I haven’t read any other posts.

  1. I am sure that if I’d taken this class, all of the terms they are using would be familiar and make sense. But I didn’t, and they aren’t (and don’t).

So, I try to suss out their meaning.

In step 1, they take away 5, and in step 2 they take away 2 more, so it would be the fourth answer: 15 - 5 - 2. That’s the one that matches what was done.
(But I’m guessing that was what the question was. I have no idea what “make a ten” is supposed to mean here.)

I thought it was fairly clear - “Here’s how to use a 10 frame to solve 15-7, which of the answers below describe the operation?”. Which is 15-5-2. As a point of anecdote, my 6 year old son is 3 months into 1st grade and gets questions nearly identical to this one on his homework and online practice site. He was able to answer them correctly without any input from me. Kids who have been learning how to use ten frames should understand what is being asked/shown, and unless they are behind on their reading ability should not have difficulty reading and understanding the question.

Tom Lerher lampooned that exact problem in 1964.

Thought I have to say that the focus on understanding what you are doing was probably a good thing. My father made it through Algebra without really understanding what he was doing.
He’d tell the story of how he was sitting in his dorm room and tried adding two three digit numbers starting from the left and “carrying” right, just to see what happened.
And then trying to figure out why that had produced a different answer.

He’d passed Algebra in high school (B+), and was now taking college math courses, but had to work out on his own that in a number like 347, the “4” represented 4 tens.

“making a 10” or “using a 10 frame” would be jargon you receive in a class. This is supposed to be an evaluation of kids before they ever take the class. It doesn’t make sense to me.