# First high profile homosexual ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310 "2006-11-13T22:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/41 "2006-11-14T15:31:05Z")
[wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_de_Erauso) in English on the nun. Doesn’t mention her engagement. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/42 "2006-11-14T20:19:26Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] it’s been 30 years since I’ve read it, but I remember one of them growing his hair long and dresssing like a woman, and mourning “as for a wife” when the other one died. [/QUOTE] Hmm. My translation has nearly the opposite. After Enkidu dies, Gilgamesh goes into mourning: > [@](#): > > He shears off his curls and heaps them onto the ground, ripping off his finery and casting it away as an abomination . . . . > “[A]fter you (died) I let a filthy mat of hair grow over my body, > and donned the skin of a lion and roamed the wilderness.” ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/43 "2006-11-14T22:32:46Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Hmm. My translation has nearly the opposite. After Enkidu dies, Gilgamesh goes into mourning: > [@](#): > > He shears off his curls and heaps them onto the ground, ripping off his finery and casting it away as an abomination . . . . > “[A]fter you (died) I let a filthy mat of hair grow over my body, > and donned the skin of a lion and roamed the wilderness.” [/QUOTE] Wait … so Gilgamesh was a _lesbian_? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/44 "2006-11-14T22:54:53Z")
Gilgamesh sheds his hair in mourning after Enkidu dies, but the text does say a couple of times that Gilgamesh “loved him like a woman.” Maybe that was a figure of speech in ancient Sumerian. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/45 "2006-11-15T02:36:52Z")
I vote to exclude people from the ancient world. Their categories of sexuality were just not conceived of in the same way - I agree with Halperin. And I can’t say that I see ‘homosexuality’ in a modern sense in Gilgamesh or even in Homer, really. (Obviously the Athenians thought there was homosexuality in Homer, and there were apparently some interesting arguments about who was the erastes and who the eromenos) ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary22](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@bluecanary22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary22)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/46 "2006-11-15T17:58:18Z")
I would really like to twist The Flying Dutchman’s question a little (sorry, Flying Dutchman) and ask who outed themself, or was outed, in at least near-modern-times and _got away with it._ Career undamaged, reputation intact or enhanced. When did this become possible and who was the first to make the jump? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/47 "2006-11-15T18:10:26Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon] (Obviously the Athenians thought there was homosexuality in Homer [/QUOTE] Homersexuality? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/48 "2006-11-15T18:22:08Z")
Well, in some interpretations, didn’t Ham make butty with Noah? He was really outed. Like outed to Africa. From Ham’s wiki page, > [@](#): > > Taking into account other uses of the phrase “…the nakedness of…” in Hebrew writings, and the fact that Noah knew what had been done to him - apparently something highly noticeable-- suggests it to be euphemistic innuendo, a reference to a sexual act. Thus the act of “uncovering the nakedness” of the patriarch, performed without consent, constituted a great crime. Some interpreters add to this that Canaan, not Ham, was the object of the curse, since the curse was a result of Ham’s sexual activity that had also resulted in the birth of Canaan, his youngest son. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/49 "2006-11-15T22:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] Maybe a convection oven combo. [/QUOTE] You want to make inroads in the heartland, give up those fruity appliances and go with a deep fryer. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/50 "2006-11-16T00:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=Iggins] Hrm… new word of the day, for me. [/QUOTE] Hence the origin of “frottage cheese”, discovered by some uncircumcised Greek lads who were not careful about under-the-hood cleaning. It was later marketed as “cottage cheese” to make it more saleable. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/51 "2006-11-16T09:32:44Z")
> **[Frottage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frottage)** > > Frottage may refer to: well, here’s wiki’s cheese. Intersting, I had always thought it refered to rubbing in public, say a crowded elevator or subway ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/52 "2006-11-16T13:56:01Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] Isn’t it time we started giving microwaves? Maybe a convection oven combo. [/QUOTE] No, no! I need a toaster oven. And I’m a straight chick, yet I did convert one in my youth (I’m just that good). So please put the toaster oven in the mail, I’ve been waiting. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/53 "2006-11-16T14:51:35Z")
[QUOTE=bluecanary22] I would really like to twist The Flying Dutchman’s question a little (sorry, Flying Dutchman) and ask who outed themself, or was outed, in at least near-modern-times and _got away with it._ Career undamaged, reputation intact or enhanced. When did this become possible and who was the first to make the jump? [/QUOTE] This is an interesting question. It will all balance on just what constitutes “getting away with it”. In a very narrow sense, Wilde was allowed to “get away with it” upon his release from prison. But few would disagree that contemporary society extracted their pound of flesh from him. I don’t know enough about Capote’s life to nominate him with complete confidence … but perhaps he’s one to consider? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/54 "2006-11-16T21:52:30Z")
German sexologist [Magnus Hirschfeld](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Hirschfeld) (1868-1935), founder of the the Scientific-Humanitarian Committee, the first gay rights organization. English author [Edward Carpenter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carpenter) (1844-1929), who was candid in his autobiography [_My Days and Dreams_](http://www.edwardcarpenter.net/ecdd4.htm) (1916). ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/55 "2006-11-16T22:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] German sexologist [Magnus Hirschfeld](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Hirschfeld) (1868-1935), founder of the the Scientific-Humanitarian Committee, the first gay rights organization. [/QUOTE] Was he a homosexual, though? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/56 "2006-11-17T01:51:03Z")
[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy] Was he a homosexual, though? [/QUOTE] Yes. And see the caption of the last photo in his Wikipedia article. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/57 "2006-11-17T02:02:31Z")
Hirschfeld’s predecessor, [Karl Heinrich Ulrichs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Heinrich_Ulrichs#Early_life): > [@](#): > > On August 29, 1867, Ulrichs became the first self-proclaimed homosexual to speak out publicly in defence of homosexuality when he pleaded at the Congress of German Jurists in Munich for a resolution urging the repeal of anti-homosexual laws. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/58 "2006-11-17T02:10:10Z")
[Natalie Clifford Barnay](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Clifford_Barney) (1876-1972), poet, memoirst, and host of one of the great literary salons in Paris: > [@](#): > > She was openly lesbian and began publishing love poems to women under her own name as early as 1900, considering scandal “the best way of getting rid of nuisances”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/59 "2006-11-17T03:23:07Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] No, no! I need a toaster oven. And I’m a straight chick, yet I did convert one in my youth (I’m just that good). So please put the toaster oven in the mail, I’ve been waiting. [/QUOTE] You converted a straight guy to become gay? (Because that’s what the toaster oven is for). What did you do to him? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/60 "2006-11-17T15:02:58Z")
I would agree with the earlier posters who said that Wilde doesn’t meet the OP’s requirements. He went through two court cases where the very point in issue was his sexuality, and in both he challenged those who were arguing he was gay. The first was the defamatory libel prosecution he brought against the Marquess of Queensbury, the father of Lord Alfred Douglas. The Marquess had left a card at Wilde’s club, addresed to “Oscar Wilde posing as a somdomite.” (The Marquess’s expensive education evidently hadn’t included spelling lessons.) In that action, Wilde denied under oath that he had had improper relations with Lord Alfred. After he lost that case, Wilde himself was charged with indecent conduct. He went to trial and denied it, but was convicted. After serving a hard sentence, he left for France and died there, his reputation in tatters. His wife changed the name of their two boys to shelter them from the scandal. So in summary, Wilde fought two court cases in which he denied his homosexual tendencies; and having been convicted, found his career ruined and his personal life shattered. That doesn’t sound to me like the OP’s requirements were met. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310.md?page=4)