# First high profile homosexual ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310 "2006-11-13T22:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/61 "2006-11-17T15:27:33Z")
I don’t know enough about the people \*\*Wallon \*\*posted on, and this thought doesn’t predate them, if he says they meet the OP that is the answer but my thoughts went to: Quentin Crisp who by his late teens/twenties (as early as ~1923ish) lived in an outsized effeminate manner and refused to hide who he was in almost any manner - he was subject to shocking homophobic attacks along the way so I don’t know if you would say he truly “got away with it” … but he basically lived like an “out” Liberace in everyday life from the roaring twenties on. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/62 "2006-11-17T15:49:09Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] You converted a straight guy to become gay? (Because that’s what the toaster oven is for). What did you do to him? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Huh - I wish it _was_ one toaster per conversion. I’m currently at four and keep getting told by HQ that I haven’t reached target yet ☹ I agree Quentin Crisp is a good contender as the first person who was out, proud and gay in the modern sense - Wilde was only one (at best two) of the three. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/63 "2006-11-17T16:21:34Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] I agree Quentin Crisp is a good contender as the first person who was out, proud and gay in the modern sense [/QUOTE] Two out of three. He insisted that being gay was “abnormal” and “an illness.” ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/64 "2006-11-17T17:42:00Z")
I can’t remember a name and Google isn’t helping but wasn’t there also a British peer serving as a diplomat on the continent who, around age 60, announced he was really a woman and started wearing dresses. If I recall he even kept his post. This would have been in the powdered wig era, I think. Ring any bells? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/65 "2006-11-17T18:02:13Z")
What does that have to do with homosexuality? ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/66 "2006-11-17T20:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] What does that have to do with homosexuality? [/QUOTE] If you are addressing me I just had my memory tickled by the mention of Chevalier d’Eon and thought I recalled a parallel in British History. Not necessarily exactly on point but I thought someone reading might be able to refresh my memory. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/67 "2006-11-17T21:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=Pábitel] If you are addressing me I just had my memory tickled by the mention of Chevalier d’Eon and thought I recalled a parallel in British History. Not necessarily exactly on point but I thought someone reading might be able to refresh my memory. [/QUOTE] Are you thinking of Edward Hyde, 3rd Earl of Clarendon, also known by the courtesy title of Lord Cornbury? > **[Edward Hyde, 3rd Earl of Clarendon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hyde,_3rd_Earl_of_Clarendon)** > > Edward Hyde, 3rd Earl of Clarendon (28 November 1661 – 31 March 1723), styled Viscount Cornbury between 1674 and 1709, was an English Army officer, politician and colonial administrator. He was propelled into the forefront of English politics when he and part of his army defected from the Catholic King James II to support the newly arrived Protestant contender, William III of Orange. These actions were part of the beginning of the Glorious Revolution of 1688. Cornbury's choice to support his cous... ---
**Author:** ![C-TATUM89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@C-TATUM89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C-TATUM89)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/68 "2006-11-18T02:54:19Z")
I believe that the first openly homosexual figure in history would have to be Grog, the caveman who discovered fire. Story goes that the creation of fire gave him riches immense enough by buy and relocate himself to his own island, which he aptly named, “Fire Island” to honor the phenomenon that gave him his wealth. Just a joke, folks. But seriously, I’d have to say Sappho. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/69 "2006-11-18T04:00:28Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] You converted a straight guy to become gay? (Because that’s what the toaster oven is for). What did you do to him? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Hee hee. As it happens I converted a straight girl to become gay. Well, I don’t really believe that but I was with her and her boyfriend and I was her first girl, and I later heard she had abandoned hertosexuality. So I was an inspiration 🙂 . (And what I did to her…well you had to be there.) And I did it out of pure honest lust but at the moment I could _really_ use a toaster oven. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/70 "2006-11-18T04:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] Hee hee. As it happens I converted a straight girl to become gay. Well, I don’t really believe that but I was with her and her boyfriend and I was her first girl, and I later heard she had abandoned hertosexuality. So I was an inspiration 🙂 . (And what I did to her…well you had to be there.) [/QUOTE] Guess I had to have been. But I wasn’t. ☹ I’ll be in my bunk. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/71 "2006-11-18T04:59:24Z")
[QUOTE=SCSimmons] My new motto … [/QUOTE] You know, every once in a while, I think that maybe I ought to change my sig. I’ve had the same one for years, here. And then I see it at the end of a sequence like that and come to my senses. ---
**Author:** ![Scribble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scribble/32/3317_2.png) [@Scribble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scribble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/72 "2006-11-18T14:52:10Z")
[QUOTE=SCSimmons] I’d actually question counting Socrates in your list of homosexuals, in fact. He was happily married with several children, and his dalliance with boys were the typical means by which ancient Greek gentlemen relieved their sexual urges when they weren’t interested in making babies. [/QUOTE] Socrates was married, but he wasn’t too happy about it. He said a lot of things about marriage that weren’t too complimentary. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/73 "2006-11-18T16:58:45Z")
[QUOTE=C-TATUM89] But seriously, I’d have to say Sappho. [/QUOTE] Regarding Sappho, I know that she’s commonly considered to be a lesbian (we know she was a Lesbian, but…🙂 ), and of course, the term"lesbianism" owes its origins to the link with Sappho, but it’s my understanding that we don’t actually know much about her life. Is there any actual evidence other than that some of her love poems seem to have been written to women? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/74 "2006-11-18T18:20:14Z")
Gilgamesh is not teh gay. Before you rev up the search engines, let’s just take a look at the text. I know there are many, many cites out there purporting that he is. They aren’t quite right. What gets Gilgamesh into trouble originally is his habit of buggering all the maidens among his subjects. Sometimes whether they are willing or not. Gilgamesh is the first on record for many things, just one of which is sex addition, or more accurately, hyper-sexuality. Enkidu is sent to kill Gilgamesh. As the two wrestle, they realize they are meant to be friends. OK, so that is one unusual wrestling match. At this point, Gilgamesh is perhaps a bit bi-curious, or maybe he just continues to be a victim of his own hyper-sexuality. He isn’t gay, however. Interestingly, Enkidu is male, but he isn’t a human. He is an anthropomorphized monster. Is Gilgamesh into bestiality? Eh, perhaps not. He just suffers from extreme versions of human passions just like many other gods and demi-gods. The ancients use a lot of sexuality both literal and symbolic in their myths (to be fair, what we call myths they called religion. Don’t forget Amut, who takes semen into his mouth and sneezes it back out to gave birth to the first man and woman. Do NOT do a google search for this! Was Amut teh gay? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/75 "2006-11-18T18:24:19Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Is there any actual evidence other than that some of her love poems seem to have been written to women? [/QUOTE] None that I know of, and, of course, most of her work is lost. Also, whatever she wrote doesn’t necessarily mean anything. After hearing a few KT Tunstall songs I was sure she was the gayest gay girl that ever wore a toolbelt until I found out she’s dating a man and has publicly stated she’s straight. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/76 "2006-11-18T22:09:34Z")
[QUOTE=Scribble] Socrates was married, but he wasn’t too happy about it. He said a lot of things about marriage that weren’t too complimentary. [/QUOTE] IIRC Greek men had a very low opinion of women. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/77 "2006-11-18T22:23:12Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] The ancients use a lot of sexuality both literal and symbolic in their myths (to be fair, what we call myths they called religion. Don’t forget Amut, who takes semen into his mouth and sneezes it back out to gave birth to the first man and woman. Do NOT do a google search for this! Was Amut teh gay? [/Quote] His mouth? Really? I thought it was masturbation. Just how flexible is he, anyway? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/78 "2006-11-18T22:25:26Z")
[QUOTE=Valteron] Hence the origin of “frottage cheese”, discovered by some uncircumcised Greek lads who were not careful about under-the-hood cleaning. It was later marketed as “cottage cheese” to make it more saleable. 😉 [/QUOTE] Oi! It’s breakfast time in some parts of the world, you know! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/79 "2006-11-18T23:21:41Z")
[QUOTE=Scribble] Socrates was married, but he wasn’t too happy about it. He said a lot of things about marriage that weren’t too complimentary. [/QUOTE] If complaining about marriage makes one an introvert, I’d submit there are more of teh gays out there than I’d previously thought. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310/80 "2006-11-19T05:08:10Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] His mouth? Really? I thought it was masturbation. Just how flexible is he, anyway? :dubious: [/QUOTE] That’s the story, but don’t be confused by my typo. It should read Atum. Ammut, with 2 m’s is something else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-high-profile-homosexual/380310.md?page=5)