# First Huge Loss at Trial **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 5, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852 "2017-04-05T22:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/1 "2017-04-05T22:54:27Z")
and my guy will probably do life in prison. I can’t help but feel I could have done more and I let him down. I almost feel guilty being at home knowing he will never be. Any other criminal defense attorneys that can soothe my pain right about now? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/2 "2017-04-05T23:04:09Z")
IANAL; but if you did your level best, the way I see it, the thing you need to do now is to use this to fuel your passion for doing your job as best you’re able. Seems a bit of depression is fitting and proper; don’t let it wreck you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/3 "2017-04-05T23:13:29Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > and my guy will probably do life in prison. I can’t help but feel I could have done more and I let him down. I almost feel guilty being at home knowing he will never be. Any other criminal defense attorneys that can soothe my pain right about now? Thanks. I wish I could. But the truth is, you’re always David against Goliath. It’s understandable to _feel_ as though there was more you could have done, but you have to ask yourself: was there, realistically? And focus on what’s important going forward. Did you preserve your record for appellate error claims? You don’t want to be arguing (or handing over to appellate counsel to argue) plain error because you failed to preserve the record. Start thinking about penalty mitigation as well. Your job isn’t over, and you need to continue doing what your client needs. But remember that you’re not required to serve his sentence. You have no need to feel guilty for sitting at home; you can’t be there for the next guy that needs you if you’re wallowing over this loss. Do what you need to do, but remember your role in the system doesn’t include throwing yourself on the funeral pyre. Allow yourself one night of self-flagellation, and then pick up the pre-sentence investigation and get to work. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/4 "2017-04-05T23:45:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I wish I could. I appreciate you trying. > [@Bricker](#): > > But the truth is, you’re always David against Goliath. It’s understandable to _feel_ as though there was more you could have done, but you have to ask yourself: was there, realistically? I am sure that in hindsight there will be. I worked my ass off on this case. > [@Bricker](#): > > And focus on what’s important going forward. Did you preserve your record for appellate error claims? You don’t want to be arguing (or handing over to appellate counsel to argue) plain error because you failed to preserve the record. Start thinking about penalty mitigation as well. Your job isn’t over, and you need to continue doing what your client needs. The trial court was seemingly fair. It ruled in my favor on probably 90% of the contentious issues. I would give even odds that if it was a bench trial, my guy would have been acquitted. So, penalty mitigation is a slim possibility. > [@Bricker](#): > > But remember that you’re not required to serve his sentence. You have no need to feel guilty for sitting at home; you can’t be there for the next guy that needs you if you’re wallowing over this loss. Do what you need to do, but remember your role in the system doesn’t include throwing yourself on the funeral pyre. This type of loss is new to me. If I miss a putt on the golf course, I suffer whatever loss. If I don’t get the new client and someone else does, I suffer. In this case, I don’t suffer anything…my guy does. Your point, however, is well taken. > [@Bricker](#): > > Allow yourself one night of self-flagellation, and then pick up the pre-sentence investigation and get to work. Will do. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/5 "2017-04-05T23:53:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I am sure that in hindsight there will be. Then start drafting a Strickland claim 😃 Sorry. Maybe too soon to get a wry chuckle, at least? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/6 "2017-04-06T00:06:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then start drafting a Strickland claim 😃 > > Sorry. Maybe too soon to get a wry chuckle, at least? We did take a risky strategy that I felt was the only winnable one. I slapped him on the arm and said I just gave you an ineffective claim if you need one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/7 "2017-04-06T00:18:01Z")
Was he guilty? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/8 "2017-04-06T00:27:11Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Was he guilty? Without disclosing any confidential communications, I do not believe he was. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/9 "2017-04-06T00:28:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Without disclosing any confidential communications, I do not believe he was. But what the hell do I know? 12 people today said he was, along with the assistant prosecutor, and a bunch of social workers. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/10 "2017-04-06T00:30:29Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Was he guilty? More importantly, were you paid in full? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/11 "2017-04-06T00:51:26Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > More importantly, were you paid in full? That was my next question! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/12 "2017-04-06T01:28:39Z")
I know more lawyers than I can to admit to. Always remember that the only way to have a perfect record is to never accept a client. Once you actually start to practice, especially a trial practice, you are bound to lose one; it can’t be prevented. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/13 "2017-04-06T01:35:41Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/14 "2017-04-06T02:34:47Z")
Bear in mind that your job was not to get your guy acquitted. Your job was to see that his rights, including the right to a fair trial with all that implies, were protected. You did that. The jury did what juries do…and there’s bourbon (or whatever takes the edge off for you). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/15 "2017-04-06T03:14:27Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Bear in mind that your job was not to get your guy acquitted. Your job was to see that his rights, including the right to a fair trial with all that implies, were protected. You did that. The jury did what juries do…and there’s bourbon (or whatever takes the edge off for you). Disagree. My job was to get my guy acquitted. Jim Beam is trying to ease this pain. My guy in county lockup…I hope he can get some sleep… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/16 "2017-04-06T11:52:00Z")
No, **Oakie** is right. Your job is to do everything you can for the client and I’m sure you did that. But litigation is chancy. If it’s going to trial it’s because both sides think there is enough uncertainty that it can’t settle. The combination of “my job is to win” plus Jim Beam can be dangerous in the long run. You won’t always be successful, no matter your best efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/17 "2017-04-06T12:32:11Z")
What was the crime? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/18 "2017-04-06T13:29:05Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I know more lawyers than I can to admit to. Always remember that the only way to have a perfect record is to never accept a client. Once you actually start to practice, especially a trial practice, you are bound to lose one; it can’t be prevented. But as a great philosopher once said, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. A lawyer who tries no cases will never lose one. She’ll also never win one. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/19 "2017-04-06T14:05:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Disagree. My job was to get my guy acquitted. Jim Beam is trying to ease this pain. My guy in county lockup…I hope he can get some sleep… Not quite - your job was to TRY to get your guy acquitted. You said you worked hard, you did your best, and unfortunately it wasn’t enough. That’s not your fault, that’s how the system works. If you truly think he is not guilty, then keep working for a re-trial or a sentence reduction or contact the Innocence Project or whatever, but your job isn’t to insure anything: otherwise your cases would never go to trial in the first place because you win by default. This thread is a fine indicator of your intrinsic goodness and your dedication to your client, but you gotta be able to let these things go, or start thinking about limiting your client load to cases with less severe negative consequences if you aren’t able to prevail. And I know both of those things are so much easier said than done, but otherwise you and Mr Beam will be headed for an unhappy life and an early grave ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852/20 "2017-04-06T14:55:55Z")
How long you been at the trial game? I just ask, b/c any lawyer who regularly appears in court is gonna lose their share of cases that they should have won. Just goes w/ the territory. There’s a reason why you want to do just about anything you can to avoid having your fate rest in the hands of a judge/jury. They are human, and can be irrational, biased, lazy, or simply make mistakes. That’s just the way the game is played. The same way sports referees sometimes blow calls. Most law is not a “happy”, stress-free occupation. Lots of clear evidence of the frequency of substance abuse, divorce, etc. among lawyers. Keep your eyes open, and figure out how to keep the work from dominating your life in ways you don’t want it to. You gotta plan for the longrun, and figure out how you can handle the ups and downs healthily. If you can’t, you might want to see about focusing your practice elsewhere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-huge-loss-at-trial/783852.md?page=2)