# First it was the elderly. Then it was disabled children. Then it was Republicans... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593 "2009-09-02T02:12:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/61 "2009-09-02T19:09:20Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > You may be on to something here. All those people flying back and forth between Africa and Hawaii back in the sixties in order to establish his fake bona fides must have generated a hell of a lot of carbon. It’s not carbon emissions, it’s Obama himself. Think about it, when does the model based on solar and volcanic activity start showing a deviation from observed temperatures? 1960s that’s when. It’s only been a ‘theory’ that greenhouse gases were the cause but the birth, growth and reproduction of Obama is the REAL cause. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/62 "2009-09-02T19:33:43Z")
Wow, nice image. Flaming straw men, in custom tailored nazi uniforms, complete with epaulets, all dying of cancer. Tris ---
**Author:** ![BKReporter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@BKReporter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BKReporter)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/63 "2009-09-02T20:46:35Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > Wow, nice image. > > Flaming straw men, in custom tailored nazi uniforms, complete with epaulets, all dying of cancer. > > Tris Howabout Sgt. Pepper jackets? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/64 "2009-09-02T20:53:53Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > You’re OP is just pathetic. The responses are pathetic. This is the SDMB, people. Try to be non biased and logical. Let’s look at that ad. > > The fact is, the U.K. does _not_ have a good track record when it comes to cancer. We, as the U.S., should not emulate their model. The ad, as a warning, is telling us not to do it. That’s it. It’s not disingenuous. Pick it apart, if you will. But at least make a point other than “Conservatives…BAD!.” > > Before attack me, I _do_ support single payer health care. I like the French system. And I hate the French! Your user name is a synonym for “Republican”. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/65 "2009-09-02T20:55:33Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Gays and minorities will be _running_ the death panels. And the most insulting part: we’ll have Blue Cross/Blue Shield. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/66 "2009-09-02T21:06:15Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Your user name is a synonym for “Republican”. :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/67 "2009-09-03T05:29:55Z")
The statistics are improving in the U.K.: [CancerHelp](http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=3317) > [@](#): > > In particular, the UK breast screening programme is picking up breast cancer earlier and treatments continue to improve. Overall, for women whose breast cancers were picked up during screening, 93 out of every 100 (93%) lived for at least 5 years after their diagnosis. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/68 "2009-09-03T06:21:18Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I sincerely have no problems with the eating of Republicans … as long as they’re cooked properly. > > 😉 > CMC Pffft. I don’t eat them myself, I feed them to my lion. I ate your fnord! ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/69 "2009-09-03T06:30:02Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > It fucking well does. The USA routinely uses a far more sensitive detection method for prostate cancer, whose efficacy is disputed because it picks up people with tumours that would never become a problem, not to mention people without tumours at all. So the US is _diagnosing_ more people, many of whom wouldn’t need treatment at all; hence the USA’s massive apparent prostate cancer rate. So they get treated, they survive (which they would have anyway), and lo! the apparent survival rate is much higher in the US, but we can’t tell from this figure how effective the actual treatment is. A little of this, a little of that. It also admits that when prostate cancer is detected early, 98.6% of patients in the UK survive. But they don’t use the more sensitive test that’s used in the USA. All the UK has to do to get even higher survival rates is bring in the more sensitive test. The USA can’t even do that; a great number of its citizens are underinsured. And the UK adopting a USA-style system would not help that stat. In fact, at this point, the abandonment of public medicine might only be possible as pure Malthusian rationing due to public health care becoming “too” expensive, in which case survival rates would be going down, intentionally. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/70 "2009-09-03T06:37:26Z")
(And I understand about false positives & differing definitions; I’m making a rhetorical point. Even if their survival rates are lower, it’s an easy fix.) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/71 "2009-09-03T07:20:53Z")
Just as a by-the-by, we do have the PSA test here. If a patient wants it, they can have it. We just don’t use it routinely on all men over a certain age, as the benefits of mass screening with such a high sensitivity, low specificity test are unclear. Should the ongoing research indicate that mass screening _is_ of benefit, it will very likely be introduced without delay. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/72 "2009-09-03T08:48:01Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Is a U.K.-style health care system anywhere near what’s being proposed? No. Was the U.K.-style health care system anywhere near what it is now when it was proposed? [I doubt it.](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/73 "2009-09-03T10:11:31Z")
What’s that article got to do with anything? Edit: I mean, you did read further than the ludicrous headline, right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/74 "2009-09-03T13:27:16Z")
Are you going to link to that article in _every_ healthcare thread? If so, can you, like, _read it_ first? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/75 "2009-09-03T13:59:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Was the U.K.-style health care system anywhere near what it is now when it was proposed? > > [I doubt it.](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html) As I read it, that article is talking about **voluntary** guidelines that have nothing to do with the nature of the financing of health care. Also, people are now questioning those guidelines and there will likely be changes made. New ideas and guidelines are tried all of the time in all countries (regardless of how they finance their health care), some turn out to be good, and some end up being modified or abandoned. Do you really believe that insurance companies, as opposed to a public program, have a greater incentive to spend more resources on these kinds of patients? Also, you’re simply presenting that article in a vacuum without any comparison to how such cases are handled in the U.S., so it contributes nothing to the debate. Do we do better? Do we do worse? Who knows? In any case, most people receiving end of life care in the U.S. are also on a public program, Medicare. So I’m not sure what we would gain in this debate by comparing Britain’s publicly funded end of life care to our publicly funded end of life care. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/76 "2009-09-03T14:06:16Z")
[http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-08-31-mexico-health-care\_N.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-08-31-mexico-health-care_N.htm) The health care story has many facets. These people moved to Mexico because they could get medical help there. A lot of people go abroad to have surgery because it is so much cheaper. We are sold the idea that our medical care is the best in the world, but that is only for the wealthy or those with great coverage. The average American struggles with health care problems.They get less coverage for more money and greater deductibles every year. We can see the direction our system is headed without an overhaul , and it is not pretty. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/77 "2009-09-03T14:06:39Z")
Socialism kills old folks. Socialism has _always_ killed old folks. Anyone who says that socialism does not kill old folks is a socialist, and is therefore lying. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/78 "2009-09-03T14:15:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Socialism kills old folks. Socialism has _always_ killed old folks. Anyone who says that socialism does not kill old folks is a socialist, and is therefore lying. 😕 Can I assume that this is sarcasm? If not, can you back this up? Do you consider Medicare to be socialism? From what I can see, Medicare is extending the lives of many of its beneficiaries. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/79 "2009-09-03T14:18:00Z")
[We Must Stop the Rampant Fraud in the Health Care Industry | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/we-must-stop-the-rampant_b_222510.html) Then of course our medical system invites fraud. It is not built for efficiency, but to make money. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593/80 "2009-09-03T14:21:22Z")
[http://www.mcclatchydc.com/330/story/65010.html](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/330/story/65010.html) This is what insurance companies do. Is that a good system? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-it-was-the-elderly-then-it-was-disabled-children-then-it-was-republicans/508593.md?page=5)