# First Knight was a piece of SHIT!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 2, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001 "2002-08-02T12:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/21 "2002-08-04T01:33:07Z")
Anyone ever see the mini-series, “Merlin”? What did you think of that one? I liked it! ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/22 "2002-08-04T01:44:48Z")
Eh, I looked at the movie as almost a parody of the Arthurian Legends, not unlike the way Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? was supposedly based on The Odyssey. Not that FK is nearly as good as OBWAT? . ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/23 "2002-08-04T01:48:19Z")
I think “Merlin” was actually pretty good too, **Jurhael**. It made some changes from the standard legends, but most modern interpretations (both in literature and on film) do, so that’s fine. The film was obviously aware of this, and even made a point of addressing the disparity (lightly) near the end. I really liked Sam Neill as a young(ish) Merlin… he pulled it off surprisingly well. Issabella Rosselini is not an actress I normally like, but she was good in _Fearless_ and she played Nimue quite well in “Merlin” as well. If you’re into “young Merlin” stories, you might like Mary Stewart’s Merlin series. The first three books, starting with _The Crystal Cave_ focus on Merlin’s development, and are very convincing. The fourth book (_The Wicked Day_) switches focus to Mordred, but is still pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Minor\_Irritant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Minor\_Irritant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minor_Irritant)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/24 "2002-08-04T02:10:59Z")
Fortunately, my only exposure to this movie was cannibalizing its sound effects and music for “Lego Macbeth”, for English class. What I saw didn’t make me want to see more. However, I doubt Jerry friggin’ Zucker was a good choice for a serious Arthurian movie. Maybe if Leslie Nielsen replaced Richard Gere… ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/25 "2002-08-04T02:11:45Z")
**Avalonian** Whoooooosssssssshhhhhhhh My comment was that I felt the adaptation was very poor. The basic tone of the TV movie was completly different from the book. At least that was my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/26 "2002-08-04T02:34:45Z")
Yeah, _whoosh_ indeed. Sorry Zebra. I agree with your opinion, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/27 "2002-08-04T08:19:06Z")
(pipes up) And so do I, re Mists of Avalon tv version. They got the feel all wrong. Like Clint Eastwood did with Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, not to hijack. I saw First Knight in the theater, and while it was pretty much a joke of a movie, I did enjoy a lot of the visuals. (Not least of which was Sean Connery…but I digress.) The splendour of the clothes, carriages, horses, etc… I love all that stuff. As someone else mentioned, the night battle was way cool. Of course architecturally they always get it all wrong. This took place in the 500s, not the 1400s as the producers seem to think. No Gothic cathedrals, kids. A whole lot more of the buildings would have been made of _wood_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/28 "2002-08-04T19:54:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Excalibur… never liked that version much, mostly because of the overuse of shiny armor (which looked like aluminum and probably was). Please excuse my nitpick, but aluminum isn’t very shiny. It’s usually a dull gray, unless it’s plated with something (nickel, probably). The armor they were wearing in _Excalibur_ looked more like stainless steel, which is almost as anachronistic. Of course, so was the fact that they were wearing that style of plate armor that early in history. Or that they were using stirrups on the horses, for that matter. Or speaking modern English. Or… well, you get the idea. Still a cool movie. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/29 "2002-08-04T22:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\*_Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ wins point not only for its poking fun at many of the legends, but also for capturing possibly the most realistic portrait of the Dark Ages in some ways. > \*\* “Bring out your dead!” **clank** Anyway. I’d like to see your perfect Arthurian movie if it ever gets made. 😃 Actually, I’d like to see a really good adaptation of _The Once and Future King_ – I don’t count _Camelot_ as an adaptation, as the two really have very little in common if you get right down to it. _First Knight_ was downright wretched. I didn’t much care for _Merlin_ either. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/30 "2002-08-04T22:29:22Z")
There are different, equally legitimate ways to present an Arthurian story. You can take it as a timeless myth, in which case you can use whatever props you like – _Excalibur_’s shiny Gothic plate or a romanticized 12-th century look like in _Lancelot and Guinevere_ (good movie) or what have you. You can have magic, or not. You can try it as historical fiction, set it in the 5th century, and try to be realistic. Whatever way you go, as long as you stay true to the spirit of the story, it can still be good. Now, if the movie does go the mythic fantasy route, as in _Excalibur_, there’s not much point in talking about historical accuracy, because it’s not set in a real time and place. Some years ago I saw a version made for British tv called “Arthur, the Young Warlord”, which took the historical route, and had wooden forts and a lot of Celts in leather. Not a big budget, but interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/31 "2002-08-04T22:51:05Z")
I believe Noah Wyle played Lancelot in a made for tv movie, but I don’t know the name of it. ---
**Author:** ![Genseric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Genseric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genseric)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/32 "2002-08-05T06:30:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I believe Noah Wyle played Lancelot in a made for tv movie, but I don’t know the name of it. \*\* It was **Guinevere**. – I like Excalibur, stylized late 15th century armor notwithstanding, even though I’m usually a stickler for historical accuracy. One thing that does bother me is the fact that Orff’s _O fortuna_ was used **twice**. First Knight was a horrible, horrible movie, though. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/33 "2002-08-14T17:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic \* > \*\*ONe other thing that really annmoyed me about the movie was the fact that the director obviously wanted to direct a Western instead of an Authurian tale. Hence the excessive use of crossbows and the like as if they were toting six-shooters. . \*\* Yes! Yes! Right on brother! And that stupid getaway boat thing… And let’s paint everything blue… And a fire in the middle of the round table. There’s a clever idea that never caught on… This flick is the film equivalent of fingernails on a blackboard. The thought of it makes my teeth hurt. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/34 "2002-08-14T21:22:46Z")
Everyone seems to be overlooking _Camelot_! I mean, c’mon, how accurate is it to have everyone belting out a showtune a couple times an hour? I don’t remember **that** from _Morte d’Arthur_… ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/35 "2002-08-14T21:25:12Z")
'course, then, I overlooked **Katisha** ’s post, so it’s cool… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/36 "2002-08-14T22:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by masonite \* > \*\* > Of course architecturally they always get it all wrong. This took place in the 500s, not the 1400s as the producers seem to think. No Gothic cathedrals, kids. A whole lot more of the buildings would have been made of _wood_. \*\* That doesn’t bother me so much. The legend of King Arthur has changed and been adapted in different ways by different people over the ages. It doesn’t matter if plate mail wasn’t around or the architecture is wrong for the 500’s. What really matters is that the basic story is left intact. From what I can remember the round table, Lancelot, and the code of chivalry wasn’t originally part of the legend. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/37 "2002-08-15T00:21:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Genseric \* > \*\* > > It was **Guinevere**. > > – > > \*\* Oh, thanks! I’ll have to see if I can locate it. Mmmm…Noah Wyle… ---
**Author:** ![Genseric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Genseric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genseric)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/38 "2002-08-15T03:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > Oh, thanks! I’ll have to see if I can locate it. Mmmm…Noah Wyle… \*\* It’s on DVD, but seems to be of limited availability. [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000IBPE/qid=1029380153/sr=1-12/ref=sr_1_12/104-9075997-5971912) ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/39 "2002-08-15T03:09:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by caveman \* > **Everyone seems to be overlooking _Camelot_! I mean, c’mon, how accurate is it to have everyone belting out a showtune a couple times an hour?** To which I can only reply… “_On second thought, let’s not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place._” ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001/40 "2002-08-15T04:05:43Z")
Hmm, I remember liking _First Knight_. Then again, Way Back When it came out, I gave pretty much any movie with swords a glowing review. (For awhile, _Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves_ was my favorite; I think I was in fifth or sixth grade at the time.) I mean, at least it has swords and armor. I can sit through pretty much any movie if it at least has historical eye candy. _The Mask of Zorro_, for example, would have been a really crappy romantic action movie, but it had swords in it, so it scrapes itself into the ‘pretty OK’ category, rather than the ‘worse than searing gas pain’ category. I’m kind of a fruitcake about swords and armor, though… (she says, sitting at a desk next to a closet filled with arms, armor, and medieval/fantasy costumes). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-knight-was-a-piece-of-shit/122001.md?page=3)