# First Measles death in Texas - Feb, 2025, and now in other parts of the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 26, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834 "2025-02-26T16:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/201 "2025-03-26T14:53:32Z")
Measles (the disease) is pleased to learn of RFK Jr.'s pick to head up the promised new study ~~to find that~~ to study whether vaccines cause autism. It’s none other than [David Geier](http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/david-geier-hired-to-study-vaccines-and-autism/), part of the father-son team of Mark and David Geier, who’ve run a chain of clinics giving a chemical castration drug to autistic boys under the delusion that it helps their mercury poisoning from vaccines. David earlier was investigated by the Maryland medical board for practicing medicine without a license. Great choice, RFK Jr.! > [@DSeid](#): > > I had always been a loud voice on the side of keeping decliners in our practice and persistently trying to bring them over. To occasional success. Now if a department vote came up? I think I’d at least vote for no new decliners. That’s a big shift for me. Positive news, especially for your other patients who’ll run less of a risk of contracting vaccine-preventable diseases from the children of your “decliners”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/202 "2025-03-26T15:31:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Positive news, especially for your other patients who’ll run less of a risk of contracting vaccine-preventable diseases from the children of your “decliners” That’s likely NOT the case. From the community risk perspective the result of a majority of practices refusing to care for refusers is inevitable concentration of those kids in the waiting rooms, which is the exact circumstance that increases outbreak risk (see Texas) which then exposes everybody where they spend more of their time, preschools, schools, grocery stores … Kids just are not in our waiting rooms or even offices that long. It makes for a good self rationalization and maybe good PR, but it increases risk to all. Despite that I am beginning to come over to other side. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/203 "2025-03-26T17:02:20Z")
Many pediatricians disagree with you about risk to their patients from unvaccinated children. For instance, California pediatrician and state senator Richard Pan: > [@](#): > > “As pediatricians see increasing rates of vaccine-preventable diseases, they’re coming to the conclusion that, unfortunately, they’re not able to take care of a child because they don’t want to endanger other families,” said Pan. > > “The safety of all children in the practice is the top concern on pediatricians’ minds,” he added. > > Others at risk of exposure include newborns and younger children who are not yet fully vaccinated, as well as those with chronic health conditions. Those chronic health conditions include inborn and acquired immune deficiencies, and immunosuppression secondary to treatment for cancer and other maladies. > **[A Third of Pediatricians Won’t Treat Families Without Vaccinations](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccinations-no-doctor-a-third-of-pediatricians-wont-treat-families-without-immunizations)** > > Pediatricians say they won't treat families whose children aren't vaccinated to protect the health of the other families in their office. I’m unaware that Texas pediatricians’ not seeing unvaccinated kids is what’s driving that outbreak, but rather the lack of vaccination in families holding antivaccine views. If a pediatric practice excludes unvaccinated kids, other children in that practice won’t be exposed to that level of risk. If antivax parents attempt to get around a vaccination requirement by seeking out other providers, then those providers need to wise up and protect their own patients by excluding the unvaccinated. It’s just sad that in the end, it’s the children who pay for their parents’ ignorance and ideological commitments. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/204 "2025-03-26T17:15:26Z")
I have been approached by a representative of Mumps™, who said he had money to invest and wanted me to recommend further individuals to head vaccine committees. Sadly, I could only think of Wakefield. Should I put you in touch? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/205 "2025-03-26T17:18:40Z")
Another pediatrician speaks out: > [@](#): > > Karam is clearly passionate about vaccines. He says he’s willing to have a conversation with those who disagree, but he won’t put vulnerable patients at risk. > > “I very politely and calmly say, ‘I’m so sorry. We can’t accommodate you if you don’t want to immunize your children. If your children get these infectious diseases, they present a risk to my other patients. My other patients are dependent on me to protect them when they come to my office.’” > > And Karam says now more than ever, parents of vaccinated children demand to know who could be sitting beside them in the waiting room. > > “Yes,” Karam said emphatically. “Yes…yes.” And he provides even more clarity. “So, for instance, if a patient with measles showed up in my office before they were terribly symptomatic—maybe they just had some mild red eyes or runny nose. They’re contagious. And if they sat in my waiting room for 20 or 30 minutes, which can happen, and I sent them home, they’ve contaminated my whole office.” > **[Dallas pediatrician cautions against anti-vaccine mindset: West Texas measles...](https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/dallas-pediatrician-cautions-against-anti-vaccine-mindset-west-texas-measles-outbreak/)** > > He vividly remembers the days before life-saving vaccines were readily accessible. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/206 "2025-03-26T17:30:35Z")
Here is a gift link discussing the appointment of Grier and his controversies. **Excerpt:** _The Department of Health and Human Services has hired David Geier to conduct the analysis, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation. Geier and his father, Mark Geier, [have published papers](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28595786/)claiming vaccines increase the risk of autism, a theory that has been studied for decades and scientifically debunked. David Geier was [disciplined](https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/GeierOrder07.302.pdf)by Maryland regulators more than a decade ago for practicing medicine without a license. He is listed as a data analyst in the HHS employee directory._ _Public health and autism experts fear that choosing a researcher who has promoted false claims will produce a flawed study with far-reaching consequences. They fear it will undermine the importance of the lifesaving inoculations and further damage trust in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The government’s premier public health agency has stressed vaccination as the safest and most effective measure to control the spread of some contagious diseases, including the growing measles outbreak. “It seems the goal of this administration is to prove that vaccines cause autism, even though they don’t,” said Alison Singer, president of the Autism Science Foundation…_ [https://wapo.st/4c2BMPr](https://wapo.st/4c2BMPr) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/207 "2025-03-26T18:23:20Z")
I am well aware that such is a story some pediatricians tell themselves to make themselves feel better about the choice. If I argue for the choice I won’t be deluding myself in that way. Texas is illustration of the risk of have unvaccinated people clustered together. And once an outbreak starts it doesn’t stay within the cluster. In terms of risk within an office setting? Correct that I know of no cases ever reported in which contact was traced to an office waiting room. So it is possible that my fear of that waiting room clustering is overblown. But if so the fear of such happening in a practice that is overwhelmingly compliant with immunization recommendations is orders of magnitude more overblown. Nah. The reason to consider not taking these families is not that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/208 "2025-03-26T18:31:12Z")
Forty years ago our pediatrician in Princeton had a separate waiting room for possibly infectious patients, to keep them apart from healthy patients coming for checkups. Not every practice has the room, and I don’t know if this was done out of caution or because they saw issues. Nothing to do with vax or anti-vax. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/209 "2025-03-26T23:37:23Z")
A friend who is a pediatrician does well child visits in the morning and sick child visits in the afternoon, for much the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/210 "2025-03-27T03:01:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > As of now, it’s unclear if the cases are connected to the mushrooming outbreak that began in West Texas. > In Kansas, the virus has mainly [infected unvaccinated children](https://www.kdhe.ks.gov/2314/Measles-Data) in the southwest corner of the state. **Genetic sequencing has suggested a link to the Texas and New Mexico outbreaks** , state health officials told The New York Times on Wednesday. **Measles Cases in Kansas May Be Linked to Texas Outbreak** [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/health/measles-kansas-ohio-texas.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/health/measles-kansas-ohio-texas.html) Perhaps someone has a gift link? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/211 "2025-03-27T03:29:44Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Perhaps someone has a gift link? Sure. Measles Cases in Kansas May Be Linked to Texas Outbreak [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/health/measles-kansas-ohio-texas.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.7E4.8YDz.JTXnwwNQA6H-](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/health/measles-kansas-ohio-texas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.7E4.8YDz.JTXnwwNQA6H-) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/212 "2025-03-28T04:16:51Z")
Was the research also written in crayon? Good luck getting her kids into school! p.s. Do you have any policy in your office about allowing kids to be vaxed when they’re brought in by their fathers, vs. their mothers? I have heard that some offices do not allow vaccines to be given without a MOTHER’S written permission, if she is alive and in the picture, because they’ve had too many irate anti-vax moms call them up and yell at them. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/213 "2025-03-28T04:17:56Z")
Measles doesn’t have the same R factor as Captain Trips, but it’s awfully close. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/214 "2025-03-28T07:38:06Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Do you have any policy in your office about allowing kids to be vaxed when they’re brought in by their fathers, vs. their mothers? We have no such policy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/215 "2025-03-28T13:13:34Z")
My husband was the primary child care provider during a lot of our children’s vaccine-getting years. A rule like that would have been a major hassle for us. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/216 "2025-03-28T13:40:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t like that. Me neither, everything I’ve brought to the attention of my medical ‘team’ has a web address citation that ends with [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov](http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) or at least Harvard med or Johns Hopkins. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/217 "2025-03-28T13:58:33Z")
It’s possible to enlighten one’s physician about research with which he/she may be unfamiliar. A caution though: just because something is contained within a government database doesn’t imply endorsement by that organization, just as a journal article’s listing in PubMed doesn’t mean it’s been validated by NIH. And while major research and teaching facilities have made significant contributions to health, they’ve also [promoted woo](https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/07/alternative-medicine-hospitals-promote/), to appear more “holistic” and of course, make more money. Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Cleveland Clinic and others have embarrassed themselves in recent years in such pursuits. Argument from authority has its risks. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/218 "2025-03-28T14:01:14Z")
Mine was from uptodate. (Which is a good medical website, by the way, although a lot of it is paywalled. But some areas are more accessible than others.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/219 "2025-03-28T21:38:05Z")
I’ve gotten good info from these guys. Pro info aimed at pros. I found them during COVID when they opened themselves up for non-paying non-professional subscriptions. But AFAIK they still allow those. > **[Latest Medical News, Clinical Trials, Guidelines - Today on Medscape](https://www.medscape.com/)** > > Today on Medscape : Get the latest medical news, clinical trial coverage, drug updates, journal articles, CME activities & more on Medscape. A free resource for physicians. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834/220 "2025-03-29T00:12:24Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I don’t like that. > > Me neither, everything I’ve brought to the attention of my medical ‘team’ has a web address citation that ends with [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov](http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) or at least Harvard med or Johns Hopkins. There is a difference between finding some information and talking to your doctor about it and “doing your own research,” which his t-shirt id referencing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-measles-death-in-texas-feb-2025-and-now-in-other-parts-of-the-us/1014834.md?page=12)