# First moves towards an alternative Republican candidate ?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 18, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864 "2003-12-18T22:45:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/1 "2003-12-18T22:45:13Z")
I always wondered why no republicans were standing up to Bush and the Iraq War. Why even though a lot of cracks were showing up in the Bush Govt. no one had taken a shot at declaring the possibility of an alternative republican candidate… someone who would have a better chance than Bush of surviving criticism against Iraq and tough questions about the UN, lack of diplomacy and terrorism. I figured they prefered to win the presidential election no matter who was in power…
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Seems like the first moves have begun to maybe envision an alternative to Bush ?
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[Republicans criticize Bush](http://slate.msn.com/id/2092791/)
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Gringich's criticism about "metrics" was pretty good... not too strong nor too weak. Enough to shake but not to topple.
Are there credible (credible as in have a good chance of winning) alternatives within the Republican party ? Is this the beggining of some dissent... or are these republicans just looking for some limelight ?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/2 "2003-12-19T00:22:01Z")
Not really, no. They’ve almost all been so staunchly behind Bush into all of his follies, both international and domestic, that none can now go against him without appearing cravenly opportunistic and unprincipled themselves. McCain is the only real exception but he’s made it clear he’s not going to run again.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/3 "2003-12-19T00:44:38Z")
From ElvisL1ves
> [@](#):
>
> Not really, no. They’ve almost all been so staunchly behind Bush into all of his follies, both international and domestic, that none can now go against him without appearing cravenly opportunistic and unprincipled themselves. McCain is the only real exception but he’s made it clear he’s not going to run again.
True…I don’t see anyone running against Bush at all. Shame about McCain…I wish he’d go Independant and run, but he won’t.
-XT
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### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/4 "2003-12-19T01:04:50Z")
There’s plenty of things the GOP could criticize Bush on. Bob Barr, after being ousted, has teamed up with the ACLU to speak up against many parts of PATRIOT act. Bush’s willy-nilly spending isn’t that popular either with some GOP’ers, I imagine. The libertarian wing of the party, such as it remains, are probably quite fed up with Bush. But for now, he’s a pretty popular president, and someone whose coat-tails they’ll enjoy riding to reelection next year, so I bet most of 'em will just shut up and take what they can get.
2008 will be a big test, seeing what kind of candidate they toss up against Hillary.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/5 "2003-12-19T03:33:53Z")
If only I could be a fly on the wall when Karl Rove picked up the _NY Times_ and read about McCain’s candidacy for the True American Patriotic Party!
I wonder, do they have a cardiac team on alert at all times in the WH?
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/6 "2003-12-19T03:48:37Z")
Logistically, nobody has a chance of beating Bush in the Republican primary. First, he has over a hundred million in the bank already, while nobody else has anything. Second, it’s too late to even get on the primary ballot in some states.
However, I do sense some anger at him from most conservative sources that I read. Besides the obvious fact that his financial and foreign policy are almost the opposite of what have supposedly been conservative principals for the last few generations, there’s also the general view of his strategy. In the eyes of some conservatives, Shrub pushes a win-at-all-costs approach and reacts too violently whenever a Republican doesn’t support his plans. I could easily see this conflict that’s currently simmering only among some conservative think tanks boiling over a few years down the road and causing major infighting within the party.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/7 "2003-12-19T03:50:19Z")
**RM** :
Nothing has really changed since you started [this thread a few months ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208358)
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### Author:  [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/8 "2003-12-19T04:53:21Z")
I would vote for virtually any other Republican beyond Bush. Where do I sign up?
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### Author:  [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/9 "2003-12-19T04:58:27Z")
I read an [essay](http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=5900) in the American Spectator yesterday. This thread seems like a pretty good place to link it:
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
>
> This renders the supposedly conservative triumph of Bush’s tax cuts meaningless. While he’s putting money in one pocket, he’s taking it out of the other. And it’s for the worst of reasons. Bush is doing it to buy off the old vote. Piffle with good government. “I’ve got an election coming up in 2004. After that we can have good government.”
>
> So in the triumph of politics over ideas in the GOP (some would say this happened long ago), it’s not about smaller government. It’s about the right people in power. It’s not about prudent spending. It’s about locking down voter blocs to stay in control. Thus the crowning moment in the Republican rise to glory is just proof they shouldn’t have it.
>
> Conservatives always trusted Republicans with power (or came close to it) because of the assumption that their principles would rein in abuse. Our bad. In the end, who cares that we kicked the left’s ass? In doing so, we just became a pain in our own.
> \*\*
Underline mine. Sing it!
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/10 "2003-12-19T05:25:14Z")
And, lo, it came to pass…A charismatic, ultra-conservative, young, well-groomed… dogs GeeDubya’s every step, ankle-biting him every step of the way: Why isn’t abortion illegal yet? How come kids arent praying in school every day? How come gays get to walk around in the daytime? Bush gets Nadered!
I’ll do anything. Anything. Sacrifice my first-born to Yog-Sothoth! (Maybe not _my_ first born. Somebody’s.) I’ll go totally Amish (that means “dial-up”, right? Not necessarily AOL, right?). I am willing to swear I will never even piss off a whale. And live my twilight years in peace, secure in the knowledge of a just and loving God.
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/11 "2003-12-19T05:28:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by elucidator \*
> \*\*I wonder, do they have a cardiac team on alert at all times in the WH? \*\*
Dick Cheney’s Vice-president, of course they do.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/12 "2003-12-19T05:41:16Z")
Those electric paddle thingys? Do they work on the Undead?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/13 "2003-12-19T05:43:11Z")
The timeline:
Jul: Transfer of power to Iraqi Interim Gov’t.
Aug: Saddam trial date set for Sept
Sept: Daily Newscasts on all networks begin with the latest horror revealed in the trial
Oct: TV ads split screen: Dean//Saddam trial “horror of the week”
Nov: Bush wins
Throw in a possible ObL capture, and it’s all over, baby.
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### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/14 "2003-12-19T05:46:32Z")
And don’t forget June: Successful Afghan elections.
Bush can say at the Convention that Afghanistan is a functioning democracy and Iraq is close to being one.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/15 "2003-12-19T05:51:46Z")
Wow! I didn’t know you could whistle past a graveyard in four-part harmony!
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### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/16 "2003-12-19T06:13:07Z")
Well, as a consolation prize for liberals, Bush is a big spending nation builder who’s only major successes against liberal causes have been a series of infuriating but largely trivial and mostly for show postures to the social right: things like anti abortion measures that will never get anywhere anyway.
Frankly, if liberals would just get on board with the idea of being interventionist around the world (something I think they deep down know is the only logical end to their complaints about human rights abuses and so on), they’d have one hell of a president, no less flawed than Clinton. Instead of opposing the war, liberals should have been condemning Bush for not taking it farther to stomp out dictators everywhere, and making sure things were done right.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/17 "2003-12-19T06:19:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by elucidator \*
> \*\*Wow! I didn’t know you could whistle past a graveyard in four-part harmony! \*\*
Speaking strictily as to how I think the process will play out (and not how I think it should play out), the only graveyards that will make an apperance will be Saddam’s mass graves, alongside first-person accounts of torture and the torture chambers where it took place. Powerful images that will be very diffcult for the Democrats to counter.
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### Author:  [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/18 "2003-12-19T07:09:55Z")
Oooh, are we predicting? I predict, again, that he WMDs will be found the week before the Democratic National Convention.
I guess I’m an old-school kind of guy, now.
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### Author:  [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/19 "2003-12-19T07:33:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Frankly, if liberals would just get on board with the idea of being interventionist around the world…they’d have one hell of a president
Actually, what they need to do is stop with the foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of Bush. Doesn’t matter if they’re right or not… nobody wants to be associated with someone that’s gnashing his teeth, red in the face, and screaming obscenities. Makes ya seem insane, don’tcha know.
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### Author:  [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/20 "2003-12-19T08:07:47Z")
**I predict, again, that he WMDs will be found the week before the Democratic National Convention.**
Lord, hear our prayer!
How hilarious would THAT be??!?!?!
Has a sitting President _ever_ been snubbed by his own party in favor of another candidate getting the nomination to run?
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