# First moves towards an alternative Republican candidate ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864 "2003-12-18T22:45:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/61 "2003-12-19T18:39:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\* He’s been good at it whether you can brign yourself to admit it or not._\* So you considering exploiting the death of thousands of innocent Americans and the resulting fear of the rest being good politics? Come to think of it, you’re probably right. It’s reprehensible and disgusting, of course, but it works politically. I’m sure you’re bursting with pride. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/62 "2003-12-19T18:58:49Z")
I thought this debate was all about people challenging GW for the election. 🙂 Where did all this other stuff come from?? From elucidator > [@](#): > > But consider…the Pubbies have held the Troglodyte Right close to their breast for, lo, these many years. People whose lunar opinions cause the Honest Conservative to recoil in disgust. Thus far, they have represented an unshakeably loyal and enthusiastic base of support. But what have they got for it? > > They demand a return to the Golden Age of OzzienHarriet, of picket fences and well-scrubbed children without a shred of improper thought. They demand an end to abortion, all the Bushiviks can come up with is demonizing a seldom-used procedure and making it illegal, in a fashion that most likely will not survive scrutiny. They demand prayers in schools, all the Bushiviks can say is that God’s Will is thwarted by those Evil Democrats (you knew that Howard Dean has a plan to force Eagle Scouts into gay marriages, didn’t you…). > > But the tighty Righties have a grip on all three sectors of governance, and still can’t deliver. Now, if they should get restless, and shift thier allegiance to a third-party True Blue American Patriot, and GeeDubya loses even half of that support… I thought one of the successful things the 'Pubs did at the last convention was to pretty much marginalize the dinasaur faction of the party. Isn’t that kind of why Pat Buchanan bolted from the party?? Isn’t the Bush government executing a fairly radical departure from traditions dinasaur conservativism…I thought thats were all that ‘neo-con’ stuff comes from. I think you are still thinking of the Republicans in terms of their more radical factions, 'luci…and in the mean time, the 'Pubs have moved on, marginalized that faction in their party (paying lip service only), and attempted to capture the center…the non-aligned Independents and center Democrats and Republicans. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/63 "2003-12-19T19:10:05Z")
That’s open to some interpretation, **Xt**. From here it looks like they have taken the Trog Right for granted. After all, where are they going to go? But willingly and voluntarily, for the sake of principle, abandon some 10-15% of the voting population? Not on yer life. As to the neo-cons “stuff”, Mr. Richard Perle… " I can only conclude that the visceral anti-Americanism just runs deeper than any other set of values that is meaningful on the left and hence the obsession with and the disparagement of what they define as a neoconservative approach to international affairs." Same shit, different mouth. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/64 "2003-12-19T19:19:33Z")
I suppose its open to interperatation, as you say. From my perspective, not being either a 'Pub or a consevative, it looked like what they were doing was to marginalize the old school right (as you say, where can they go?) while trying to approach the middle and the non-aligned. Perhaps this is an over simplification, or perhaps its a happy accident…it just seemed that way to me, from what little of the last 'Pub convention I saw on TV. Of the speakers I remember listening too, almost non of them spouted the same old bullshit that I remember earlier conventions. I still don’t see anything on the horizon either in the Repubican party or and Independant that will hurt Bush or even make a fight of it though. If there is a split in the party over the old school right not getting what it wants or whatever, its not going to be a huge factor in THIS election…thats trouble thats still down the road. Maybe 2008. In the mean time, there is no Perot to swipe votes from the 'Pubs, and I would be extremely surprised if anyone IN the Republican party even bothers to run against Bush…just not going to happen IMO. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/65 "2003-12-19T19:23:50Z")
Probably so. But any scenario that would cause Karl Rove to wake up screaming is just short of Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/66 "2003-12-19T20:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > **…(you knew that Howard Dean has a plan to force Eagle Scouts into gay marriages, didn’t you…)** Not Gov. Dean, his first activist SCOTUS appointee; Judge Napoleon Jones Jr. (should he win in 04). [ > [@](#): > > (In 7/2003, 9th District) Judge Napoleon Jones Jr. concluded that the Boy Scouts’ lease of the 18-acre Camp Balboa violated the constitutional separation of church and state. Jones said there is “overwhelming and uncontradicted evidence” showing that the Scouts are a **religious** organization. ]([http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20031219-9999\_7m19boys.html](http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20031219-9999_7m19boys.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/67 "2003-12-19T20:40:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > \*\* There are a dozen people I’d rather see in the White House, including at least one Democrat- but as they aren’t running, and even if they were running they wouldn’t be winning, so I’ll be voting for Bush. \*\* So your logic is that you want to vote for someone who will win ? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/68 "2003-12-19T20:48:03Z")
Hell, I’m gonna write in Billy-boy’s name again. Nobody said nothin’ about non-consecutive terms in that amendment, right? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/69 "2003-12-19T20:53:03Z")
Shoot…it does say “no more than twice”… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/70 "2003-12-19T21:02:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > Well, that’s such a loaded word You’re right, it is a loaded word. I think I know how to avoid that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/71 "2003-12-19T21:31:07Z")
Hey, that’s right, nothing stopping anybody from writing in John McCain or whoever. Of course, except for the Kodos “That’s right, THROW your vote away!” factor. Dean is starting to subtly annoy me but I still won’t vote for Bush because of it (and it’s the principles, I don’t have this visceral hatred of the guy that is getting almost comical to me sometimes). I wish there was a Rockefeller Republican out there, because I voted for Bloomberg with no qualms and am generally happy with him. I know this puts me in a tiny minority, but as a white girl living in the Bronx I’m used to that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/72 "2003-12-20T00:01:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > **I keep reminding you, elucidator - Clinton isn’t running this time!** Neither one of them? Sure is a relief to hear that from at least some of the hard right. To the OP: There’s an old saying that “You can’t beat somebody with nobody.” Who’s the somebody who can beat the somebody? Only McCain? Goes for those calling Dean a bad candidate for the Dems - gotta say who’d be better, and why. Doesn’t get that far, usually. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/73 "2003-12-20T01:40:35Z")
From ElvisL1ves > [@](#): > > Goes for those calling Dean a bad candidate for the Dems - gotta say who’d be better, and why. Doesn’t get that far, usually. IMO, Lieberman is a much better candidate. The reason is, he has more appeal to the center and the non-aligned voters than Dean OR Bush does. He won’t win against Dean in the primaries (mores the shame, as thats who I would have voted for), but I think he WOULD win against Bush…or at least give it a good shot. McCain is the only one IMO that would have even a snowballs chance in hell of challenging Bush either from the Republican party or as an Independant…but he has already said he won’t run. -XT ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864/74 "2003-12-20T11:12:54Z")
Clark is the strongest candidate on his record compared to Bush’s. Dean really is the most qualified IMO because of his executive experience. The candidates from the Senate love to tout their “experience” as opposed to Dean’s, but it’s BS of the highest order. Being a Senator does not prepare you for the Presidency like being a governor does. The only edge it gives a candidate is the experience of dealing with Washington politics. That’s important, of course, but not as important as running a state and having to deal with a legislature. The reason I think Clark is the strongest candidate compared to Bush is his military record, which makes Bush’s look really lame by comparison, and his foreign policy experience. I disagree strongly with many of the positions he’s taken and probably won’t vote for him, but I would imagine that Karl Rove does not want to have to face Clark if he can help it. Dean is much more of an easy target for negative advertising, and it’s sad to say, but Dean is his own negative ad when he speaks most of the time to anyone but a very pro-Dean audience. My favorite candidate is Lieberman too, second would be Edwards. I’d vote for either of them over Bush. Kerry, Clark, and Dean can still win me over, the rest are pure crap, especially that loser Gephardt. How can a man who loses the House so many times think he can win the Presidency? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-moves-towards-an-alternative-republican-candidate/219864.md?page=3)