# First President to leave nation worse off? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2003, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357 "2003-12-06T09:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/1 "2003-12-06T09:28:26Z")
Hillary Clinton in Houston: “This administration is in danger of being the first in American history to leave our nation worse off than when they found it” Leaving aside this administration, is she right that no former one has left the nation worse off than when they took power? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/2 "2003-12-06T10:36:51Z")
I despise Bush. I think he is leaving the world a worse place. Recent reports seem to indicate the American economy is doing spiffingly now though. Saddam is _gone_. Iraqis don’t have to hide in terror from him anymore. Though by all accounts they are not feeling all that jolly yet. Blair always struck me as a sensible person and more a leader of the “people” then Thatcher or any other Tory. Bush has probably skittled his re-election. Mr Bush seems to have done a fine job of splitting Europe (ok maybe they were not that cohesive to start with) The lifting of steel tarrifs has won some friends I’m sure. So better or worse seems to to come down to deciding if the buck rules or not. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/3 "2003-12-06T10:46:39Z")
No, Bush can’t possibly be the first, no matter what happens. James Buchanon, for instance, had him beat by almost a century and a half. And that’s just off the top of my head, he may very well not have been the first either. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/4 "2003-12-06T10:46:45Z")
You miss the point. I’m not concerned with arguments for or against Bush. I’m interested as to whether a serious case could be made for Clinton’s assertion that no previous administration in history had left the country worse off. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/5 "2003-12-06T10:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aldiboronti \* > \*\*Leaving aside this administration, is she right that no former one has left the nation worse off than when they took power? \*\* What about Herbert Hoover? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/6 "2003-12-06T11:06:34Z")
But didn’t he promise chickens in pots? Ok I have sketchy and barely remembered American history from NZ high school…what would I know. I still vote Bush though. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/7 "2003-12-06T11:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > \*\*…I still vote Bush though. \*\* Good on you! I voted, and will vote, for GW too! ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/8 "2003-12-06T11:27:51Z")
Can I lol? Pleeeeeeeeease? Thanks **brutus** that was the best laugh I ever got at this time of night! I do admire your conviction though. It shows Mr Bush didn’t fuck his way to the top. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/9 "2003-12-06T12:42:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > \*\*But didn’t he promise chickens in pots? > > Ok I have sketchy and barely remembered American history from NZ high school…what would I know. > > I still vote Bush though. \*\* That was Huey P. Long who promised a chicken in every pot. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/10 "2003-12-06T13:22:26Z")
I seem to recall a Jimmy Carter… great Ex-President, but Gads! ---
**Author:** ![cedric45](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@cedric45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedric45)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/11 "2003-12-06T13:50:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aldiboronti \* > \*\*Leaving aside this administration, is she right that no former one has left the nation worse off than when they took power? \*\* President Warren G. Harding decided not to seek relection, putting Herbert Hoover in office. The Great Depression followed. (some say Harding saw it coming and didn’t want the blame and Hoover was pretty ineffectual at solving the problems.) Surely that was the worst condition this country has ever been in. Ms. Clinton :wally should go back to a high school history class for some remedial education. ---
**Author:** ![esquimalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@esquimalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esquimalt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/12 "2003-12-06T13:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aldiboronti \* > \*\*Hillary Clinton in Houston: > > “This administration is in danger of being the first in American history to leave our nation worse off than when they found it” > > Leaving aside this administration, is she right that no former one has left the nation worse off than when they took power? \*\* Worse off in terms of what? The economy? Foriegn policy? The budget? Taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/13 "2003-12-06T13:55:19Z")
The ones off the top of my head would be Buchanan, Hoover, Lyndon Johnson. If you want to think in terms of long range consequences, Eisenhower, Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/14 "2003-12-06T14:00:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cedric45 \* > \*\*President Warren G. Harding decided not to seek relection, putting Herbert Hoover in office. The Great Depression followed. (some say Harding saw it coming and didn’t want the blame and Hoover was pretty ineffectual at solving the problems.) Surely that was the worst condition this country has ever been in. > > Ms. Clinton :wally should go back to a high school history class for some remedial education. \*\* You may want to consider it yourself. Harding died in office. His vice-president, Calvin Coolidge then took over in 1923, was re-elected in 1924 then chose not to run in 1928 mostly because he hated being president. Hoover then ran on the Republican ticket and was elected. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/15 "2003-12-06T14:17:53Z")
Lyndon Johnson would seem like a reasonable example as Neurotik . He got us up to our necks in Vietnam and then didn’t seek another term. As for Jimmy Carter, well, I try to pretend all of that just never happened. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/16 "2003-12-06T14:48:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cedric45 \* > \*\*President Warren G. Harding decided not to seek relection, putting Herbert Hoover in office. The Great Depression followed. (some say Harding saw it coming and didn’t want the blame and Hoover was pretty ineffectual at solving the problems.) Surely that was the worst condition this country has ever been in. > > Ms. Clinton :wally should go back to a high school history class for some remedial education. \*\* I suppose one could argue that Harding had both ESP and a death wish, and so chose to die, knowing he would be succeeded by Coolidge, which would indirectly lead to Hoover’s Presidency… ---
**Author:** ![cedric45](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@cedric45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedric45)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/17 "2003-12-06T15:31:20Z")
Arrrrgh! **Neurotik, RickJay** ya got me there! (wiping egg off face) Still, The depression was the worst time for the US of A, Hillary’s posturing not withstanding. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/18 "2003-12-06T15:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\* > > If you want to think in terms of long range consequences, Eisenhower, Nixon. \*\* Nixon I can understand, but why Eisenhower? Remember, the way history is taught in high school (and I haven’t taken any in college), you’re lucky to make it to WWII by the end of the year. Forgot making it to Vietnam or later. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/19 "2003-12-06T15:59:00Z")
Well, the first mistake is in quoting Shrillary on anything. She does not know her butt apart from a burnt biscuit. As far as leaving the country worse off, in my lifetime alone we have two shining examples: Johnson and Carter. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357/20 "2003-12-06T16:12:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asterion \* > \*\*Nixon I can understand, but why Eisenhower? Remember, the way history is taught in high school (and I haven’t taken any in college), you’re lucky to make it to WWII by the end of the year. Forgot making it to Vietnam or later. \*\* Eisenhower because of the precedent he set under the Dulles boys in overthrowing democracies. The overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran, for example, cost us a natural Middle East mature democracy and an ally in the region and gave us instead a terrorist supporter and general pain in the butt. Other examples would be Guatemala, which helped contribute to massive instability in the region. Had Eisenhower made different decisions in those instances, I believe that that world be a safer and more prosperous place today. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-president-to-leave-nation-worse-off/217357.md?page=2)