# First Pro-gun video I don't hate **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459 "2013-01-17T02:58:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/41 "2013-01-18T04:06:33Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > What proof of this do you have at all? Are all these guys news junkies? Aside from the fact that they would not off themselves if they were really interested in the fame and “glory”, there is also the issue that nobody has even attempted to offer any proof of this phenomena beyond anecdotal evidence. The mall shooter we had here in Omaha a few years ago left a suicide note before he went on his rampage. The last line in the not was “Just think, I’m going to be fucking famous.” So we know at least some of these shooters anticipate and seem to take pride in the infamy they’re going to enjoy after their crimes. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/42 "2013-01-18T04:13:31Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > But in light of real factual evidence, I would gladly turn in my .45 if the government actually gave a shit about protecting people by banning handguns instead of rifles and “scary things”. I could easily live without it. I don’t CCW, and a shottie and a rifle is fine enough for me. I wouldn’t. But then, I have a CCW permit - and getting it required passing a classroom test, a range test, and a serious background check. I think there are legitimate reasons for citizens to own handguns (obviously, since I own some), but I have no problems with making it tougher to purchase a handgun than a long gun, since the potential for misuse is higher. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/43 "2013-01-18T04:25:13Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > The mall shooter we had here in Omaha a few years ago left a suicide note before he went on his rampage. The last line in the not was “Just think, I’m going to be fucking famous.” So we know at least some of these shooters anticipate and seem to take pride in the infamy they’re going to enjoy after their crimes. Why does the shooter’s words in that instance mean more than they do if they blamed anyone else? If he had said an ex girlfriend made him do it, or blamed his mom, are we to accept those as factual accounts? It makes a nice compelling narrative to blame the media, but it doesn’t stand up if we are being logically consistent. Nor us it a viable solution. When dealing with crazy people, they typically don’t need any specific reason to act. Furthermore, the argument that media coverage increases the likelihood of someone doing something illegal is clearly suspect in many cases. Does reporting child abductions lead to more abductions? Does reporting on rapes lead to more rapes? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/44 "2013-01-18T04:48:28Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why does the shooter’s words in that instance mean more than they do if they blamed anyone else? If he had said an ex girlfriend made him do it, or blamed his mom, are we to accept those as factual accounts? A suicide note gives us some insight into the deceased person’s frame of mind shortly before his action. Here’s the Von Maur shooter’s last words (written to his foster mother): “I just want to take a few pieces of shit with me… just think tho, I’m gonna be fuckin famous.” Based on that, I’d say that he was angry at the world and saw the notoriety he knew he’d gain as a result of his spree killing as a positive thing. Wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/45 "2013-01-18T05:59:38Z")
I agree with one of the people posting under his video. This is the type of person who should be in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/46 "2013-01-18T15:13:44Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > It’s a knee-jerk reaction to a recent, horrifying couple of events that feature a certain type of rifle that is no more or less efficient at killing people than _any other manner of firearm_. _Italics_ mine No need to go into specifics, long arms are vastly more accurate and efficient than handguns, caliber per caliber. Armies and hunters use next to no handguns at all, because they are such inferior weapons compared to rifles, efficiency-wise. Anyone can hit man-sized targets regularly at 100 feet or so with a rifle, while it takes real skill to hit man-sized targets with a handgun at that range. This has been my experience, and that of many others. Homicide statistics are the way they are because handguns are concealable. Luckily rifles are less so, or we would have deadlier spree shootings. Breivik took 69 lives, using a rifle to snipe fleeing people from a distance. Similarly, Bryant managed 35 while strolling through a seaside tourist attraction. High death toll with handguns is doable only in highly confined spaces such as a classroom. Again, shooting into a classroom, through classroom doors etc., a rifle would be still more deadly. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/47 "2013-01-18T15:24:37Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > _Italics_ mine > > No need to go into specifics, long arms are vastly more accurate and efficient than handguns, caliber per caliber. Armies and hunters use next to no handguns at all, because they are such inferior weapons compared to rifles, efficiency-wise. Anyone can hit man-sized targets regularly at 100 feet or so with a rifle, while it takes real skill to hit man-sized targets with a handgun at that range. This has been my experience, and that of many others. > > Homicide statistics are the way they are because handguns are concealable. Luckily rifles are less so, or we would have deadlier spree shootings. Breivik took 69 lives, using a rifle to snipe fleeing people from a distance. Similarly, Bryant managed 35 while strolling through a seaside tourist attraction. High death toll with handguns is doable only in highly confined spaces such as a classroom. Again, shooting into a classroom, through classroom doors etc., a rifle would be still more deadly. While all this is true, the spree shootings we have had here recently were conducted at close range. I should have been more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/48 "2013-01-18T16:23:52Z")
He seems an expert on the thought processes of the mass shooter. He isn’t. Nobody is “forced” to learn everything about a mass shooter. If he doesn’t like that he can easily watch something else. Mass shooters do not stop and take their own lives when someone fires a shot at them. I disagree that “You” are responsible for your own safety. I believe that we all are responsible for our safety. That’s why I live in a society and not off in the woods by myself. Basically this guy is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/49 "2013-01-18T16:53:51Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I disagree that “You” are responsible for your own safety. I believe that we all are responsible for our safety. That’s why I live in a society and not off in the woods by myself. You are wrong. But you are also right. And no, that’s not a contradiction. On a societal level, we’re all responsible for everyone’s safety. So we work together and pass policies and laws that attempt to improve the safety of society overall (like funding police departments, starting intervention programs for high-risk youth to keep them from drifting into crime, educating people about domestic violence, etc.). But those measures just reduce violence, they don’t stop it entirely. And IF you’re unlucky enough to find yourself facing a violent attack, your safety is totally 100% up to you. The police, try though they might, will NOT arrive in time, because most violent encounters are over very quickly. So you are personally responsible for your safety, and so is society. There’s no contradiction there, it’s just a matter of what level you’re looking at the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/50 "2013-01-18T17:03:56Z")
Yes and overall, I’ll be safer with fewer guns in the society I live in. I tried to watch another video by the same guy. The one on assault rifles. First he bemoans that the term assault rifle is being misused and that Obama and “Frakenstein” are don’t know anything about guns. He then goes with the logic that he doesn’t want to bring a handgun to an assault rifle fight because the assault is better. A. has he ever been in any sort of gun fight? B. Try to plan to not be in a gun fight. Yes, when the “SHTF” (a charming acronym I’ve learned from watching some of these youtube videos) I am responsible for my safety. I know that. I’m a grown up. Of course, I should be calling the cops if I can and if possible, do nothing. If my steps to make myself “safer” make the society less safe, those are not good steps to take. That is selfishness. Selfishness is not good for society and in the long run, not good for any individual. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/51 "2013-01-18T17:16:48Z")
This guy is an obsessed nutjob. He has 164 videos about guns. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/52 "2013-01-18T17:55:17Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Mass shooters do not stop and take their own lives when someone fires a shot at them. While this is probably true in most cases, I think at a bare minimum it will stop/reduce the body count, even if it puts the person attempting to shoot the killer at mortal risk. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/53 "2013-01-18T19:07:20Z")
Well that is the “truth” presented by this video that people like. It’s a lie. People are liking lies. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/54 "2013-01-18T19:17:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > We also lead the Western world in gun deaths per capita (around 10 per 100,000), on par with Colombia, Panama, Brazil and Chilie. Not as bad as Mexico (25) or Honduras (46) or El Salvador (50) though. Yes, the US leads the world in gun ownership and in gun deaths. No question about that. However, if you look at murders per capita rather than **gun** murders per capita, the US ranks right around the middle of all nations. [List of countries by intentional homicide rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) And if you choose the category of just violent crimes rather than murders – [Violent Crime Rate Per 100,000](http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2012/12/what-country-has-most-violent-crime.html) The British don’t have guns yet they do have far more violent crime than the USA. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/55 "2013-01-18T20:09:57Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > Yes, the US leads the world in gun ownership and in gun deaths. No question about that. However, if you look at murders per capita rather than **gun** murders per capita, the US ranks right around the middle of all nations. > > [List of countries by intentional homicide rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) > > And if you choose the category of just violent crimes rather than murders – > > [Violent Crime Rate Per 100,000](http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2012/12/what-country-has-most-violent-crime.html) > > The British don’t have guns yet they do have far more violent crime than the USA. The British also have very different definitions of violent crime than the FBI does. That dramatically skews the numbers. On your first point, the murder rate in the US is still far higher than in any **comparable** country. It’s 4 times higher than in the UK for example. I don’t really care how well we stack up to Liberia, El Salvador, or Estonia seeing as there is little of what they do that we wish to emulate. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/56 "2013-01-19T00:43:49Z")
I agree with the point that giving these shooters publicity encourages copycats. I disagree with pretty much everything else he says. But at least he’s putting forward a coherent argument, as opposed to the Alex Joneses of the world who are walking advertisements for gun control. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/57 "2013-01-19T01:54:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > the Alex Joneses of the world who are walking advertisements for gun control. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/58 "2013-01-19T04:26:32Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > The British also have very different definitions of violent crime than the FBI does. That dramatically skews the numbers. On your first point, the murder rate in the US is still far higher than in any **comparable** country. It’s 4 times higher than in the UK for example. I don’t really care how well we stack up to Liberia, El Salvador, or Estonia seeing as there is little of what they do that we wish to emulate. The U.S. is strange in many ways when it comes to crime statistics. It is one of the safest countries in the world by far when it comes to crime as a whole (only Canada does better and that is mainly due to demographics). A random person is much more likely to be the victim of crime in almost any country including almost all European ones than in the U.S. That includes robberies, muggings. home break-in’s when the owner is at home, and all other categories except for the most violent of crimes: like murder. The vast majority of those crimes have a victim that wasn’t innocent themselves (gang wars or drug dealer conflicts are common causes). I can easily believe that liberal gun laws in the U.S. give criminals the opportunity to kill one another easily but that doesn’t translate into a high crime rate that affects most people. It is the exact opposite in fact. The crime statistics for the average person are unusually low and we can’t rule out the fact that many homeowners are armed to account for that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/59 "2013-01-19T09:56:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How so? Because when you are a frothing screaming paranoid crazy person and you are one of the more visible faces of the gun rights movement, it does not really sell the idea that gun owners are calm, sensible people who can be counted upon to act responsibly with big scary weapons. For a counterpoint, consider the marijuana-smoking crowd. It’s hard to convince people that pot smokers are normal, mature individuals when so many of the public advocates have been incoherent tie-dye-wearing hippies (and Bill Maher). ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459/60 "2013-01-19T12:01:10Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > This guy is an obsessed nutjob. He has 164 videos about guns. I don’t care. I only care about this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-pro-gun-video-i-dont-hate/647459.md?page=4)