# First R-Rated Musical **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019 "2010-08-22T00:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/21 "2010-08-25T11:09:05Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > _South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut_ was an R-rated musical. There have been plenty _since_ the '70s – my question was which was the first. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/22 "2010-08-25T11:26:58Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Was there one before _Saturday Night Fever_? I don’t consider _Saturday Night Fever_ to be a musical. While it has an extensive soundtrack, at no time during the movie do the characters sing the dialogue instead of just speaking it. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/23 "2010-08-25T11:52:10Z")
So you wouldn’t call _All That Jazz_ a musical, either? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/24 "2010-08-25T12:05:15Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > So you wouldn’t call _All That Jazz_ a musical, either? > > Huh. I never said that. _All That Jazz_ uses musical death-dream sequences that forward the storyline, and not merely enhance it. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/25 "2010-08-25T12:07:39Z")
Saturday Night Fever _clearly_ isn’t a musical. It’s a film which has music and some plot-centric dancing in it. If Satuday Night Fever is a musical then so are countless other films that have scenes in night clubs. The difference (to my mind) is that in musicals the song and dance numbers are usually conducted out of a context in which singing and dancing is usually carried out. Frequently the fact that people will have been singing and dancing is then completely ignored by the characters. There are obvious exceptions to this though, such as FAME. I’ve never seen ‘All that Jazz’ but from the Wiki page it seems like musical to me. Wikipedia even decribes it as a ‘musical film’, though I admit that the context of a guy imagining musicals from his death bed (is that correct?) could be seen as ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/26 "2010-08-25T12:21:44Z")
Whatever. I consider any film in which the characters do extensive singing and/or dancing a musical – and find it interesting to look at the changes in how that singing and dancing have been contextualized over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/27 "2010-08-25T12:29:27Z")
I think the difference is that, in a musical the singing and/or dancing does more than enhance the storyline-it _provides_ the storyline. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/28 "2010-08-25T12:36:23Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > You probably haven’t seen **Repo! The Genetic Opera**. Heh. ♪\*What’s the matter, Graverobber? Can’t get it up if the girl’s breathing? (I can’t feel nothing at all) \*♫ ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/29 "2010-08-25T13:18:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think the difference is that, in a musical the singing and/or dancing does more than enhance the storyline-it _provides_ the storyline. Making _Saturday Night Fever_ a musical, Q.E.D. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/30 "2010-08-25T14:53:55Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > I think the difference is that, in a musical the singing and/or dancing does more than enhance the storyline-it _provides_ the storyline. > > Making _Saturday Night Fever_ a musical, Q.E.D. > > 😉 The characters neither sing nor dance in situations where they would not otherwise do so in real life. Dialog is said, not sang. Dancing is done either on the dance floor or in practice sessions, not in the streets or other public settings. Not a musical, Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/31 "2010-08-25T15:02:25Z")
Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/32 "2010-08-25T16:31:28Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I don’t agree to that! ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/33 "2010-08-25T16:32:24Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I am on your side..offered as proof: Characters sing all of their lines = Opera (Phantom of the Opera, Miss Saigon) Characters sing some of their lines = Musical (Oklahoma, South Pacific, Guys and Dolls, West Side Story) Characters sing none of their lines = Movie SNF is a **movie**. Hair (with Beverly D’Angelo) was a movie based on the Broadway MUSICAL of the same name. Same with Godspell, Annie, and Jesus Christ Superstar. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/34 "2010-08-25T16:44:41Z")
Nope, you’re on **Czarcasm** ’s side, not mine – I don’t find singing by the characters necessary to call something a musical. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/35 "2010-08-25T17:24:25Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Nope, you’re on **Czarcasm** ’s side, not mine – I don’t find singing by the characters necessary to call something a musical. Sorry about that…realized it after the timeout. :smack: So, I do disagree with you, because singing IS one watermark in defining a musical. > **[Musical theatre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_theatre)** > > Musical theatre is a form of theatrical performance that combines songs, spoken dialogue, acting and dance. The story and emotional content of a musical – humor, pathos, love, anger – are communicated through words, music, movement and technical aspects of the entertainment as an integrated whole. Although musical theatre overlaps with other theatrical forms like opera and dance, it may be distinguished by the equal importance given to the music as compared with the dialogue, movement and other e... "…Musical theatre is closely related to another theatrical performance art, opera. These forms are usually distinguished by weighing a number of factors. \*\*Musicals generally have a greater focus on spoken dialogue \*\*(though some musicals are entirely accompanied and sung through; and on the other hand, some operas, such as Die Zauberflöte, and most operettas, have some unaccompanied dialogue); on dancing (particularly by the principal performers as well as the chorus); on the use of various genres of popular music (or at least **popular singing styles** ); and on the avoidance of certain operatic conventions. In particular, a musical is almost always performed in the language of its audience. " John Travolta did not sing any song in SNF. None of the principals did. **SNF** , by definition, cannot be a musical or an opera, no more than \*\*Urban Cowboy \*\*is. \*\*Grease \*\*could be considered a musical, since Travolta and Newton-John (and the rest of the cast) sang and danced. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/36 "2010-08-25T17:35:44Z")
I’m not seeing a statement in your cite that the singing has to be by the characters. (Gotta say, though, that I don’t really care – if you guys think some movies I’d call musicals aren’t, fine, go ahead and think that. I’m not particularly invested in the label one way or another.) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/37 "2010-08-25T17:40:34Z")
**twickster** , you are so wrong that when I read your OP I assumed a musical remake of _Saturday Night Fever_ was coming out, because the 1977 movie is not a musical. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/38 "2010-08-25T18:38:25Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I’m not seeing a statement in your cite that the singing has to be by the characters. Would it help if we cited the Wikipedia entry for “[musical film](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_film)”? It starts off by saying, “The musical film is a film genre in which several songs sung by the characters are interwoven into the narrative.” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/39 "2010-08-25T18:58:48Z")
Fine, whatever. _Saturday Night Fever_ is not a musical. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019/40 "2010-08-25T19:39:44Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Fine, whatever. _Saturday Night Fever_ is not a musical. How about a “dansical”? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-r-rated-musical/551019.md?page=3)