# First Step To Delegitimizing Any Opposition -- DHS Fabricates "Radical Right" Threat **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212 "2009-04-15T19:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/1 "2009-04-15T19:34:51Z")
> **[Breitbart News Network](https://www.breitbart.com/)** > > Syndicated news and opinion website providing continuously updated headlines to top news and analysis sources. I will note that “high volume of purchases and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition” are not illegitimate and in fact the right to make them is guaranteed in the Constitution. And, that much of any high-volume buying was sparked by Democratic promises to enact strict controls on gun and ammo purchases. Acquaintances who keep in touch with the avid wing of the anti-abortion movement also report that the (also constitutionally protected. whether you agree with them or not) peaceful pickets outside abortion clinics have recently seen DHS “observers.” I think this guy nails it. The “radical right” bogeyman is an effort to take certain issues completely off the table for discussion in the name of “terrorism.” [http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jromano/2009/04/14/silencing-the-opposition/](http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jromano/2009/04/14/silencing-the-opposition/) It was disgusting when GWB used security/patriotism to delegitimize debate on foreign policy, and it’s equally disgusting what Napolitano (under the Boss’s orders, no doubt) is trying to do to create a permanent monopoly on allowable opinions (and thus on the Government). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/2 "2009-04-15T19:43:15Z")
OK if I turn you in? I’ve almost got enough points for a toaster oven… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/3 "2009-04-15T19:47:44Z")
What exactly is the debate here? Do you have any factual refutations for DHS’s claims that right wing extremism is on the rise? It certainly looks that way to me? What is the basis of your assertion that Napolitano is trying to stifle free speech. I say kudos to Napolitano for being on top of the threat. We don’t need any more Oklahoma Cities. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/4 "2009-04-15T19:51:00Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > …peaceful pickets outside abortion clinics have recently seen DHS “observers.”… What is the technique for spotting these “observers”? Does it involve aluminum foil? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/5 "2009-04-15T19:52:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What is the technique for spotting these “observers”? Does it involve aluminum foil? As told to me, they saw guys wearing LE style jackets and snapping photos, asked them who they were, and were quite politely told, “DHS observers.” It happened, it didn’t – I wasn’t there, but that account is not on its face ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/6 "2009-04-15T19:58:16Z")
[Glenn Greenwald](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/14/surveillance/index.html): > [@](#): > > Conservatives have responded to this disclosure as though they’re on the train to FEMA camps. The Right’s leading political philosopher and intellectual historian, Jonah Goldberg, invokes fellow right-wing giant Ronald Reagan and says: “Here we go Again,” protesting that “this seems so nakedly ideological.” Michelle Malkin, who spent the last eight years cheering on every domestic surveillance and police state program she could find, announces that it’s “Confirmed: The Obama DHS hit job on conservatives is real!” Lead-War-on-Terror-cheerleader Glenn Reynolds warns that DHS – as a result of this report (but not, apparently, anything that happened over the last eight years) – now considers the Constitution to be a “subversive manifesto.” Super Tough Guy Civilization-Warrior Mark Steyn has already concocted an elaborate, detailed martyr fantasy in which his house is surrounded by Obama-dispatched, bomb-wielding federal agents. Malkin’s Hot Air stomps its feet about all “the smears listed in the new DHS warning about ‘right-wing extremism.’” > > It’s certainly true that federal police efforts directed at domestic political movements – even ones with a history of inspiring violence in both the distant and recent past – require real vigilance and oversight, and it’s also true that the DHS description of these groups seems excessively broad with the potential for mischief. But the political faction screeching about the dangers of the DHS is the same one that spent the last eight years vastly expanding the domestic Surveillance State and federal police powers in every area. DHS – and the still-creepy phrase “homeland security” – became George Bush’s calling card. The Republicans won the 2002 election by demonizing those who opposed its creation. All of the enabling legislation underlying this Surveillance State – from the Patriot Act to the Military Commissions Act, from the various FISA “reforms” to massive increases in domestic “counter-Terrorism” programs – are the spawns of the very right-wing movement that today is petrified that this is all being directed at them. > > When you cheer on a Surveillance State, you have no grounds to complain when it turns its eyes on you. If you create a massive and wildly empowered domestic surveillance apparatus, it’s going to monitor and investigate domestic political activity. That’s its nature. I’d love to know how many of the participants in today’s right-wing self-victim orgy uttered a peep of protest about…[this](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/politics/20fbi.html?_r=1) [in] 2005 > [@](#): > > So what’s the problem? As the National Review/Bush-following-Right has been telling us for years now, there’s nothing to worry about if you’ve done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. The first duty of the Government is to protect us all – keep us safe and warm from all the scary things out there, like a Good Daddy does – and if they need to trample on some lofty privacy ideals and so-called civil liberties concerns and supposed Constitutional safeguards, well: that’s just how it is. It takes a real paranoid hysteric to think that federal government officials have nothing better to do than target domestic political opponents. And besides, what good is the Constitution if we’re all dead at the hands of domestic McVeigh-like Terrorists? After all, the Constitution isn’t a suicide pact. Remember all of that? I certainly do. > > This is all as laughable as it is predictable. Just a couple months out of power and they have suddenly re-discovered their fear of the Federal Government and their belief in the need to limit its powers. And it turns out, there’s also a memo from DHS about [left-wing extremists](http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/obtained-dhs-memo-warning-of-left-wing-extremists/). Is that meant to deligitimize any “ally”, too? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/7 "2009-04-15T20:01:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What exactly is the debate here? Do you have any factual refutations for DHS’s claims that right wing extremism is on the rise? It certainly looks that way to me? Well, their claims aren’t “factual” to begin with, so why would I be obligated to refute them with facts so as to prove the negative of a non-existent positive fact assertion? Language such as “ **could lead** to the **potential** emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists **capable of** carrying out violence attacks,” and "But DHS said in a secret April 7 advisory for local law-enforcement officials that threats so far had been **“largely rhetorical”** and had **“not yet turned to attack planning.”** and “ **has no specific information that domestic rightwing terrorists are currently planning acts of violence,** but rightwing extremists **may** be gaining new recruits” who could someday resort to attacks. and “The economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique **drivers for** rightwing radicalization and recruitment,” according to the report. \*\* and "The department **did not name any active rightwing extremist groups** , " Tells me that they’ve got jack. The one actual data point, as opposed to theory or supposition or ass-pulling-out-of that they cite – increased gun purchases, in anticipation of promised Democratic gun-control legislation, is, as noted, a reference to the exercise of a right enshrined in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/8 "2009-04-15T20:04:08Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > As told to me, they saw guys wearing LE style jackets and snapping photos, asked them who they were, and were quite politely told, “DHS observers.” It happened, it didn’t – I wasn’t there, but that account is not on its face ridiculous. A more legitimate rock solid source has never been found. Some guy told you that some other guys said something? People are going to compare this to the 2001 report on left-wing extremists, when of course an unbiased report on extremists of any nature is the proper thing to do. Investigating possible violent acts is not the same as squashing speech and dissent. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/9 "2009-04-15T20:05:22Z")
And this just in… [http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/15/fox-dhs-bush/](http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/15/fox-dhs-bush/) > [@](#): > > …However, this morning, Fox News’s Catherine Herridge revealed that the report, along with an earlier report on radicalized left-wing groups, was actually “requested by the Bush administration” but not completed until recently… Didn’t mean to interrupt. You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/10 "2009-04-15T20:08:31Z")
Is there a law against taking pictures of pro-life protests? Get back to us when you can show that somebody’s rights are being infringed. Simply taking note of a rise in rhetoric among Stormtrooper types is a sign of nothing but the DHS doing its job. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/11 "2009-04-15T20:13:46Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > DHS Fabricates “Radical Right” Threat I heard that some of them are importing yellowcake from AFRICA!!! :eek::eek::eek: ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/12 "2009-04-15T20:19:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this just in… > > [http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/15/fox-dhs-bush/](http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/15/fox-dhs-bush/) > Didn’t mean to interrupt. You were saying? I acknowledge that changes my view on who’s responsible. I still think it’s an overblown response to a hypothetical threat, and one that – unlike focusing resources on foreign terrorist suspects – could well have a chilling effect on constitutionally-protected rights. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/13 "2009-04-15T20:20:04Z")
The pope is Catholic, bears shit in the woods, and the group with power classifies what they don’t understand or disagree with as potentially dangerous. News below: > **[Computer Science Student Targeted for Criminal Investigation for Allegedly...](https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/04/13)** > > Boston - A Boston College computer science student has asked a Massachusetts court to quash an invalid search warrant for his dorm room that resulted in campus police illegally seizing several computers, an iPod, a cell phone, and other technology.... The Linux operating system is apparently a cause for arrest. [http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease\_detail.cfm/release/244](http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/release/244) Corporation labels the Humane Society as funders of terrorism. > **[Iranian Unit to Be Labeled 'Terrorist'](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401662.html)** > > The United States has decided to designate Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps, the country's 125,000-strong elite military branch, as a "specially designated global terrorist," according to U.S. officials, a move that allows Washington to target the... USA labels Iranian unit as terrorist organization. [http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/4E1E4B99-DFB9-4169-A1FB-6169DFA6768A/](http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/4E1E4B99-DFB9-4169-A1FB-6169DFA6768A/) Iran labels the CIA a terrorist organization. [http://americansfortruth.com/news/georgia-gay-republican-activist-calls-aftah-domestic-terrorist-group-compares-us-to-nazis.html](http://americansfortruth.com/news/georgia-gay-republican-activist-calls-aftah-domestic-terrorist-group-compares-us-to-nazis.html) Gay calls anti-gay group terrorists. [http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/aclu\_reveals\_fbi\_labeled\_peace\_group\_terrorist.htm](http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/aclu_reveals_fbi_labeled_peace_group_terrorist.htm) Bush era FBI labels liberal groups as terrorist. These cites aren’t meant to be even remotely close to unbiased, only examples of the crap that the right side of the blogosphere is so traumatized about going in every direction possible. It was total crap when the Bush administration did it to lefties, and it’s the same now that an overly broad brush has been used on the righties. I’d have a lot more sympathy, though, if the righties hadn’t looked the other way when it was the lefties being labeled as dangerous. On Preview: **elucidator** ’s link and others’ comments makes the outrage appear even more phony. ---
**Author:** ![Mannish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Mannish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mannish)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/14 "2009-04-15T20:22:09Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I heard that some of them are importing yellowcake from AFRICA!!! :eek::eek::eek: [Pray to God, don’t drop that shit…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI5aMXH3Gg8) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/15 "2009-04-15T20:24:03Z")
**Huerta88** : do you think the government ought to be keeping a watchful eye out for people like Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/16 "2009-04-15T20:26:27Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > [http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease\_detail.cfm/release/244](http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/release/244) > Corporation labels the Humane Society as funders of terrorism. I know you’re clear on this, but I want to emphasize that this particular one is especially despicable: the CCF is a one-man lobbying operation for the restaurant industry that does everything he can to discredit animal welfare groups. The fact that he used his lobbying firm money to buy an ad in the NYT, and then issued a press release about his ad, is pretty par for the course. [More Information](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_Consumer_Freedom) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/17 "2009-04-15T20:29:27Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > [Glenn Greenwald](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/14/surveillance/index.html):And it turns out, there’s also a memo from DHS about [left-wing extremists](http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/obtained-dhs-memo-warning-of-left-wing-extremists/). Is that meant to deligitimize any “ally”, too? Uh, no. But without buying into conspiracy theories, it is clear that there are differences between the reports - the one linked about left-wing threats references a number of known organizations and movements known to have caused recent trouble and that are still active. The other report is mighty vague by contrast, and refers to amorphous threats by everyone from antiabortion protesters to militia members to returning veterans. Without looking at the other studies in the series - referenced by both documents - the fact that one is so specific and one is so general does not inspire tremendous confidence in me, personally. Maybe this is fleshed out more in other documents, but I don’t have proof of that, and neither does anyone here. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/18 "2009-04-15T20:31:09Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Huerta88** : do you think the government ought to be keeping a watchful eye out for people like Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh? For sure. I question only the proportionality vis a vis the ability of most KKK types to tie their shoes. And, I do question the elision (as the Romano article notes) between KKK\<-----\>peaceful abortion protestors\<------\>McVeigh\<-----\> people who (100% lawfully) “stockpile guns and ammunition.” Don’t mention all these things in the same paragraph unless you’re implying they are equal in nature or threat level or illegitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/19 "2009-04-15T20:33:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Is there a law against taking pictures of pro-life protests? > > Get back to us when you can show that somebody’s rights are being infringed. Simply taking note of a rise in rhetoric among Stormtrooper types is a sign of nothing but the DHS doing its job. My friends had their very own spook around the RNC in New York. They got him to buy them gallons of liquor, because he was old and they were young. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/20 "2009-04-15T20:33:20Z")
FYI, [here](http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hsa-rightwing-extremism-09-04-07.pdf) (in pdf) is the DHS Assessment in question. DHS apparently has an “Extremism and Radicalization Branch,” which published this. The report was prepared in coordination with the FBI, which, to put it mildly, has never been known for leftist politics. Which parts of this do you think are “fabricated,” **Huerta88?** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212.md?page=2)