# First Step To Delegitimizing Any Opposition -- DHS Fabricates "Radical Right" Threat **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212 "2009-04-15T19:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/41 "2009-04-15T22:15:53Z")
Gotta be somebody they don’t already have. But thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/42 "2009-04-15T22:17:45Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > For sure. I question only the proportionality vis a vis the ability of most KKK types to tie their shoes. And, I do question the elision (as the Romano article notes) between KKK\<-----\>peaceful abortion protestors\<------\>McVeigh\<-----\> people who (100% lawfully) “stockpile guns and ammunition.” Don’t mention all these things in the same paragraph unless you’re implying they are equal in nature or threat level or illegitimacy. That’s completely reasonable. So what, in your view, would constitute a “right wing extremist?” How would you describe the views of an extremist of this bent? What do these people do that differentiates them from political conservatives? I could ask the same question about “left wing extremists,” but I think that may lead us somewhat into a hijack. An interesting one, but a slightly different discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/43 "2009-04-15T22:33:06Z")
1. Rights, schmights. We are at war. 2. If the OP has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear. 3. If the OP doesn’t like it, he should feel free to leave. 4. Why does the OP hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/44 "2009-04-15T22:37:26Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > 1. Rights, schmights. We are at war. > > 2. If the OP has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear. > > 3. If the OP doesn’t like it, he should feel free to leave. > > 4. Why does the OP hate America? As I said, I’ve by no means written either party a free pass on this, and as many have said, it was inappropriate (and un-American in the true sense) under GWB, and tarring people by implication is inappropriate by lumping together political opponents and true felons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/45 "2009-04-15T23:07:31Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > As I said, I’ve by no means written either party a free pass on this, and as many have said, it was inappropriate (and un-American in the true sense) under GWB, and tarring people by implication is inappropriate by lumping together political opponents and true felons. But, the DHS report does not do that. It’s all about keeping an eye on extremists who **might** become felons. Let’s never have another Timothy McVeigh slip past the radar. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/46 "2009-04-16T00:59:41Z")
One thing just occurred to me on the veterans angle. Maybe the eventual suggestion is for the veterans themselves to be made aware of the potential that they may be recruited by extremist groups and that they may want to report on any they suspect may be planning actual violence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/47 "2009-04-16T01:11:21Z")
Conservatives or other people opposing Obama don’t deserve to be tarred by associated with potentially violent lunatics. Actual lunatics planning or threatening violence should be monitored, and there are certainly some of those out there. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/48 "2009-04-16T05:18:36Z")
As much as I like Greenwald’s response, I think I know what those worried about the DHS report would say: that Bush never, _ever_ used the government for domestic political motives, and this is the evil Obama abusing natural Presidential powers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/49 "2009-04-16T12:52:19Z")
From a link in the OP: > [@](#): > > Fears of possible new restrictions on firearms, as well as troubled veterans returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, “could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violence attacks” What are “violence attacks”? That’s like frightening scary. I’m not a fan of _tu quoque_ arguments, but there’s irony aplenty in anti-abortion protesters upset about supposed intimidation/demonization. That’s their stock in trade. And there’s been enough bombing, shooting and other terroristic activity associated with anti-abortion rights extremists for Homeland Security to keep an eye on the movement. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/50 "2009-04-16T13:30:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > there’s irony aplenty in anti-abortion protesters upset about supposed intimidation/demonization. That’s their stock in trade. And Rosa Parks’s too, I presume? I can think offhand of two instances of violence (Eric Rudolph and the Slepian murder). Maybe there are a few more. There are thousands of instances of prayer vigils and pickets (misguided or not). “Intimidation/demonization?” “Stock in trade?” Well, now we know how you feel on the underlying issue. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/51 "2009-04-16T13:32:45Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > And Rosa Parks’s too, I presume? That’s a ridiculous analogy. Slepian was murdered because anti-abortion lunatics posted his home address on a web site and tacitly encouraged his murder. Rosa Parks didn’t shoot a bus driver and didn’t tell anybody else to do it either. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/52 "2009-04-16T13:55:39Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I can think offhand of two instances of violence (Eric Rudolph and the Slepian murder). Maybe there are a few more. There are thousands of instances of prayer vigils and pickets (misguided or not). “Intimidation/demonization?” “Stock in trade?” [Violence against abortion clinics](http://www.publicagenda.org/charts/violence-against-abortion-clinics) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/53 "2009-04-16T14:09:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a ridiculous analogy. Slepian was murdered because anti-abortion lunatics posted his home address on a web site and tacitly encouraged his murder. Rosa Parks didn’t shoot a bus driver and didn’t tell anybody else to do it either. That’s because you didn’t understand the actual analogy. The actual analogy was not Parks:Slepian (did you really think it was?). It was Parks:middle aged ladies praying silently outside a clinic. Is their “stock in trade” intimidation and demonization? If not, then my question stands as to the “stock in trade” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/54 "2009-04-16T14:16:41Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > It was Parks:middle aged ladies praying silently outside a clinic. Is their “stock in trade” intimidation and demonization? No, it most certainly isn’t. But so far I haven’t seen you acknowledge that there actually are violent lunatics in the antiabortion movement and in some of these other movements. They’re a minority but they unquestionably exist. During the last eight years I’ve wondered why they didn’t get more attention, and I still think it might be because of political inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/55 "2009-04-16T15:39:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But so far I haven’t seen you acknowledge that there actually are violent lunatics in the antiabortion movement and in some of these other movements. Hereby acknowledged. Proportionality is my point. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/56 "2009-06-10T22:38:10Z")
[Time yet to apologize to Napolitano?](http://trueslant.com/ryansager/2009/06/10/time-to-apologize-to-janet-napolitano/): > [@](#): > > Is it time yet for Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge, and the rest of the hysterical right-wing media to apologize to Janet Napolitano for going batshit over her report about a possible spike in right-wing violence at home? Hmmm… It just might be. > > First, Dr. George Tiller was gunned down at his church by an anti-abortion fanatic. > > Then, an unemployed truck driver shot up a church because he hated liberals and gays. > > And now a white supremacist has shot up the Holocaust Museum and killed the security guard there. > > Okay, I’m doing a bit of the media “three makes a trend” BS here. But it’s also not crazy to see a trend emerging. Yes, folks on the Left are just as capable of violence (especially when we’re talking about Communist totalitarian societies), and “green” terrorism is also on the rise. But the largest terrorist attack on American soil prior to 9/11 was Oklahoma City, and we know who perpetrated that. And we also know when they perpetrated that — after the election of the last Marxist, treasonous, threat to America’s constitutional order… Bill Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/57 "2009-06-10T22:55:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, I’m doing a bit of the media “three makes a trend” BS here. Of course there doesn’t need to be a trend. All it takes is one. The right wing, along with certain other movements, is a quarter from which a terrorist or two might emerge. So the DHS should keep an eye out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/58 "2009-06-10T23:00:54Z")
Well Huerta88, there was a right wing murder at the Holocaust Museum in D.C. today, and last week Dr. Tiller was murdered by a right winger. Both ostensibly political murders. If you look at the hundreds of attacks on abortion clinics and thousands of threats, it certainly would appear that right wing attacks happen on a regular basis. Whether they are increasing or not would require careful study. But it certainly is supported by evidence that there are right wing organizations that talk a lot about violence and some of the members do it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/59 "2009-06-10T23:25:49Z")
What I have to say to anyone on the right who thinks this is a horrific infringement upon their rights. Welcome to what it felt like to be a leftist for pretty much the entirety of the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212/60 "2009-06-10T23:37:54Z")
Of course, the right wing tools like Hannity will never apologize, its simply not in their vocabulary. It feels bittersweet to be proven right though. On one case, its another stark example of Limbaugh’s hot air being all for naught, but then a lot of good people were hurt or killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-step-to-delegitimizing-any-opposition-dhs-fabricates-radical-right-threat/493212.md?page=4)