# First the Catholic Church. Then Penn State. Now the Boy Scouts. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935 "2012-09-17T03:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/21 "2012-09-17T18:37:16Z")
A timely Malcolm Gladwell [article on Jerry Sandusky in the _New Yorker_](http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/09/24/120924crat_atlarge_gladwell) amplifies the point about molesters seeking out such organizations, and how they use them to develop a “trustworthy” appearance: > [@](#): > > A pedophile, van Dam’s story of Mr. Clay reminds us, is someone adept not just at preying on children but at confusing, deceiving, and charming the adults responsible for those children […] > > People didn’t believe that Clay was a pedophile because people liked Clay—without realizing that Clay was in the business of being likable. […] > > The successful pedophile does not select his targets arbitrarily. He culls them from a larger pool, testing and probing until he finds the most vulnerable. Clay, for example, first put himself in a place with easy access to children—an elementary school. Then he worked his way through his class. He began by simply asking boys if they wanted to stay after school. “Those who could not do so without parental permission were screened out,” van Dam writes. Children with vigilant parents are too risky. […] > > Pedophiles cluster in professions that give them access to vulnerable children—teaching, the clergy, medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/22 "2012-09-17T19:06:30Z")
I blame women for this. If they were just all total sluts who would sleep with anyone at the drop of a hat, none of this would happen. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/23 "2012-09-17T19:06:51Z")
Exactly - Mr. Gladwell summarizes it well. I grew up with a boy who later in life told me he had been molested by his boy scout troop leader. He did not bring charges. He did suspect that the guy molested other boys in his troop as well (duh). So basically, the pedophile has had 40 years of molesting fun in the small town I grew up in with no repercussion. If only someone could come forward - or could have 40 years ago. I actually tried to call the local police about it - just to check if I could report anything - but of course it is hearsay coming from me. The worst part about it is I wonder if some of the victims grow up to do some molesting of their own - I would not be surprised to find that out about the old friend - he has some messed up tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/24 "2012-09-17T19:27:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I blame women for this. If they were just all total sluts who would sleep with anyone at the drop of a hat, none of this would happen. 😛 Yeah, just what we need to eradicate pedophilia… more kids! ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/25 "2012-09-17T19:28:46Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I believe I first learned about this issue in an episode of South Park. SNL, Alec Baldwin, and Adam Sandler beat them to it about 15 years prior. That was a great skit 😃 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/26 "2012-09-17T19:29:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The Scouts were out hawking something at the grocery store yesterday. I was fully prepared to be an ass and tell them that until there was a merit badge for cocksucking, I would refuse to support their organization. Gay Rights and all that. But they were busy scamming some other poor soul when we left so I didn’t get the chance to make a fool of myself and embarrass my wife publicly. 😛 Wait, what? You were going to tease a bunch of little kids of being the victims of pedophiles because of something that adults have done? Why would that be a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/27 "2012-09-17T19:34:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Wait, what? You were going to tease a bunch of little kids of being the victims of pedophiles because of something that adults have done? Why would that be a good idea? That’s why I didn’t do it. Nobody said the idea was a **good** one. Besides, I wasn’t going to harass them over pedophilia. I was going to harass them over their stance on admitting gays. Completely different subject entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/28 "2012-09-17T19:40:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Wait, you mean there’s no badge for Cocksucking? No wonder the other troops shunned us at Jamboree! I remember when I got my skill award for Trouser Tenting… ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/29 "2012-09-17T19:48:31Z")
Erm…This surely is a common meme since time immemorial isn’t it? I can’t recall a time in my life when it that wasn’t the stereotype. I remember well the conversation over 30 years with a bunch of my friends when we all decided we weren’t going to join the scouts as it was “gay” and we were in danger of getting “botted” by the scout master. Standard UK childhood reaction if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/30 "2012-09-17T19:52:01Z")
You know it just occurred to me…I was only in Boy Scouts for a year or two. I remember our Scoutmaster just dissappearing. Poof! No more Scoutmaster! I asked my Mom one time what happened to him, and was shoooshed. Can’t wait for this list to come out to see if he’s on it. Or, I suppose I could ask my Mom. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/31 "2012-09-17T19:53:15Z")
Hard to judge in advance of any specifics, but I wonder if the percentage of molesters in the BSA is any higher or lower than in any other institution with contact with children. I thought I read that the incidence of molesters among priests is no higher than among teachers, for instance. Boy Scouts don’t require their leaders to be unmarried, so at least we won’t have that to argue about. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/32 "2012-09-17T20:18:41Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > You know it just occurred to me…I was only in Boy Scouts for a year or two. I remember our Scoutmaster just dissappearing. Poof! No more Scoutmaster! > > I asked my Mom one time what happened to him, and was shoooshed. Can’t wait for this list to come out to see if he’s on it. > > Or, I suppose I could ask my Mom. I thought scoutmasters were pretty much one of the Dads. Did that guy have a son of his own? I’m reading the Gladwell Article and it makes scary sense. Although, I’m dubious of his ability to say accurate stuff since I’m pretty sure Brown University does not offer football scholarships. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/33 "2012-09-17T20:20:03Z")
I was in the Cub Scouts, which is essentially Boy Scouts for younger boys. All we did was have “den meetings” at the house of one of the members whose mother was the “den mother”. We did crafts and learned to tie knots and stuff like that. When I outgrew that, for some reason I had no interest in joining the actual Boy Scouts and my parents didn’t encourage it or even mention the possibility. Maybe they didn’t like the idea of sending their son into the woods with a strange man. Maybe I subconsciously picked up on that from them. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/34 "2012-09-17T20:27:19Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I thought scoutmasters were pretty much one of the Dads. Did that guy have a son of his own? > > I’m reading the Gladwell Article and it makes scary sense. Although, I’m dubious of his ability to say accurate stuff since I’m pretty sure Brown University does not offer football scholarships. That is the usual pattern, but some dads also stick around after their kids move on. We had several dads when I was a Scout whose sons were off in college. My Scoutmaster never had kids - Scouting was his hobby and charity. There are 3 issues here: 1. Scouts is going to attract pedophiles. You can go out in the woods with boys for a weekend after all. 2. The Scouts in the US have tightened up the system a lot in recent years, and at one time were setting the standards. Two adults must be present at all times. All leaders must have a criminal background check. Mandatory training for adults on youth protection. Every Scout handbook, staring with the 1st graders, has a booklet that the parents have to sign off on. 3. The Scouts kept their files in the early days - that was good given that society was still looking the other way. However, they should have done what Scouts Canada did with THEIR files - take them to a neutral 3rd party to review, audit, and determine next steps for some of the files. Instead they kept them in boxes. Now, due to court proceedings, those files are going public and the Boy Scouts are in reactive mode. Many of us saw this coming years ago and told the BSA to get the files reviewed by the appropriate authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/35 "2012-09-17T21:26:07Z")
[**No surprise in Canada**](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/10/20/scouts-turley-pedophile-list.html). This story was wall-to-wall last October (with video). Bolding mine: > [@](#): > > Boy Scouts of America leaders knew for years about incidents involving a Canadian pedophile who preyed on boys in the U.S. but failed to stop him as he moved back to Canada, where he continued his abuse. > > The organization sometimes even helped him go undetected by authorities, an investigation by CBC-TV’s The Fifth Estate and the Los Angeles Times has found. . . . > > . . . Throughout the 1970s and '80s, Richard Turley was involved with the Scouts across California and British Columbia, molesting at least eight scouts. . . . > > . . . “I don’t remember what we decided, other than we didn’t want this person on our staff,” Hill said. **“Hopefully, he went back to Canada and that was their problem.” . . .** > > . . . Seattle-based lawyer Tim Kosnoff, who has viewed the U.S. “perversion files,” says historically the U.S. Boy Scouts “routinely” chose not to notify police when aware of child molesters, instead noting them in their own secret files. > > Despite all the changes made to the Scouts organization, Turley maintains that “Scouting is still a flawed movement.” > > “If I was a parent, I would never put my kids in Scouts.” Scouts Canada denies it had secret files. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/36 "2012-09-17T21:53:01Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I’m reading the Gladwell Article and it makes scary sense. Although, I’m dubious of his ability to say accurate stuff since I’m pretty sure Brown University does not offer football scholarships. They don’t nowadays, as per the Ivy League agreement banning athletics scholarships for their students, but they did in the 1940’s when Paterno went to college. (In fact, Paterno’s college days pre-dated the official founding of the “Ivy League” itself as an intercollegiate athletics organization, which didn’t happen till 1954.) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/37 "2012-09-17T21:59:44Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > SNL, Alec Baldwin, and Adam Sandler beat them to it about 15 years prior. That was a great skit 😃 Great memory. Takes me back to the days when I actually thought SNL was funny: [**Canteen Boy**](http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80812188/) * * * As for the OP, you should well know by now that any and all of these kinds of accusations can be dismissed as mere rumors until they pass The Paper Tube Test[sup] **®** [/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/38 "2012-09-18T01:20:41Z")
Sadly, [this needs repeating.](http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-10yearold-boys-if-you-see-someone-raping-u,26724/) ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/39 "2012-09-18T13:46:34Z")
I’m not shocked - well, I am, but I guess it’s not a total surprise that this sort of thing was covered up. In fairness, BSA has fairly strict policies nowadays, regarding child safety - as in, an adult may NEVER be alone with a boy who is not his own son, and may never tent with boys not his own sons even if there are others around; there are annual training sessions to remind the boys of what is acceptable and when to tell an adult that something is going on. And very few of the men who do this sort of thing would identify themselves as gay, from what I understand - they like children, not men. Girl Scouts have similar “can’t be alone with a Scout not your own daughter” rules. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935/40 "2012-09-18T14:25:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought I read that the incidence of molesters among priests is no higher than among teachers, for instance. That’s a hell of a charge to throw out there with nothing more to support it than a vague “I thought I read..”-cite please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-the-catholic-church-then-penn-state-now-the-boy-scouts/634935.md?page=3)