# First use of Mother of All Bombs: what's the status of the US arsenal? Lessons learned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394 "2017-04-13T18:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/41 "2017-04-14T04:13:51Z")
…and sometimes its blows up in their faces as in the case of the [USS Forrestal fire](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR-bwpM_q_Q) ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/42 "2017-04-14T04:14:48Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Perhaps this has been asked and answered before, but… Is English your first language? Persons with Wernicke’s aphasia can produce many words and they often speak at a normal rate and prosody. However, often what they say doesn’t make a lot of sense. They may fail to realize that they are using the wrong words or using a non-existent word and often they are not fully aware that what they say doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/43 "2017-04-14T08:08:57Z")
$16,000,000 (plus cost of delivery) to kill _36_ fighters out of a group of ~700 sounds like an insanely low ROI… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/44 "2017-04-14T08:20:04Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > If you resort to violence, you’ve already lost. Nobody’s keeping score as a referee. “Whoops, Israel just carried out an airstrike on Hamas; that’s the 4,263rd time that Israel has resorted to violence, so make that 4,263 ‘loss’ points against Israel.” ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/45 "2017-04-14T08:23:26Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > With nukes on the field against ISIS, there’d be no illusions. You get into a thin end of the wedge argument. If it is OK for the US to nuke IS, then it is OK for Russia or China to nuke troublesome militants as well. And one person’s militant is another’s freedom fighter. How would India and Pakistan view things? India might feel that nuking Islamist militants is now defensible, and Pakistan might feel significantly less happy about exactly who is classified as one. The other reason is that using nukes against IS would be no more productive than using the MOAB. You don’t attack an insurgent force spread across thousands of square miles with nukes. Using a nuke instead of the MOAB would just make a bigger hole. The people hiding in the caves can’t be made any deader. A nuke is not a weapon suited to war in any sensible manner. They are vastly too powerful. Nobody has any idea how an escalating conflict where a nuke is used can be controlled. And the stakes are simply impossibly high. Do you feel lucky punk? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/46 "2017-04-14T08:27:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > $16,000,000 (plus cost of delivery) to kill _36_ fighters out of a group of ~700 sounds like an insanely low ROI… In a modern day conflict probably not really. If you looked at the total cost of the presence in Afghanistan versus the number of insurgents killed it probably comes up with a similar number (at least order of magnitude number.) $300 million to wipe IS out of Afghanistan? I doubt it could be done for that. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/47 "2017-04-14T08:48:33Z")
Is the MOAB a thermobaric bomb? Wiki seems to suggest it is, but the test footage on youtube doesn’t have the characteristic double wham that thermobaric weapons have as the fuel-air mix detonates. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/48 "2017-04-14T10:48:56Z")
Most all of the OPs posted by the OP are usually difficult to parse. I try but I don’t get it usually. -1 for me:( ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/49 "2017-04-14T11:51:48Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Is the MOAB a thermobaric bomb? Wiki seems to suggest it is, but the test footage on youtube doesn’t have the characteristic double wham that thermobaric weapons have as the fuel-air mix detonates. [Nope.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon#US_developments) The MOAB explodes [tritonal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_Massive_Ordnance_Air_Blast#Testing_and_manufacture), different kind of boom entirely. (I thought the MOAB was thermobaric until I looked it up yesterday.) The Russki’s [_Father_ of All Bombs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_All_Bombs), on the other hand _is_ thermobaric. Take notes; there will be a quiz. ---
**Author:** ![SloppyJoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@SloppyJoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SloppyJoes)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/50 "2017-04-14T12:26:40Z")
Well, well, what do you know. Trump’s MOAB strike in Afghanistan was [on fucking point.](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/mother-of-all-bombs-afghanistan-casualties-237226) 36 ISIS foot soldiers were killed in the blast. Trump meant it when he said he would bomb the shit out of ISIS. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/51 "2017-04-14T12:43:19Z")
> [@SloppyJoes](#): > > Well, well, what do you know. Trump’s MOAB strike in Afghanistan was [on fucking point.](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/mother-of-all-bombs-afghanistan-casualties-237226) Yes, who would have anticipated that a bomb capable of killing everyone within a mile of the blast would have managed to kill a small handful of people. It was truly a miracle of pinpoint logistics. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/52 "2017-04-14T12:52:36Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Since this was supposed to destroy tunnels, can anyone think why they didn’t use one of the new [big-ass bunker busters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator) instead? My guess is that the bunker buster would create severe but highly localized damage. This is great if you’re trying to destroy a specific hardened command bunker containing your enemy’s leadership/comm center, but when you’ve got fighters dispersed throughout a mountain valley, localization of bomb damage is undesirable. With the MOAB’s airburst at a significant altitude above ground, you get a shock wave that hammers every tunnel in the valley. Tunnels at or near ground zero get destroyed, but even in tunnels farther away that don’t get crushed, the blast wave will be fatal to occupants. The [Mach stem](http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects6.shtml) phenomenon is typically associated with nuclear airbursts, but presumably it’s also observed in non-nuclear airbursts like the MOAB. ---
**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/53 "2017-04-14T13:16:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Since this was supposed to destroy tunnels, can anyone think why they didn’t use one of the new [big-ass bunker busters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator) instead? The MOAB was closer to it’s expiration date. I believe it was the wrong decision, we all know things are usually just fine after that date. (If the sides of the bomb were puffy, that’s a different story) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/54 "2017-04-14T14:03:57Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Something I haven’t seen anyone address but occasionally militaries will drop bombs that are either close to the end of their service life and it’s easier to use them than disarm them, or just to train crews on their use in combat use. This happened a lot during the Cold War as well as during the Iraq War where in some cases we’d dump more ordinance than was required on an isolated target just to kill two birds with one stone. This ordinance is not that old. If it’s not stable enough to last a decade it’s not very useful. Within the last few years in training I blew up shaped charges produced in the late 1940s. > [@MrDibble](#): > > $16,000,000 (plus cost of delivery) to kill _36_ fighters out of a group of ~700 sounds like an insanely low ROI… What would be the cost in lives to clear out those tunnels on foot? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/55 "2017-04-14T14:14:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > $16,000,000 (plus cost of delivery) to kill _36_ fighters out of a group of ~700 sounds like an insanely low ROI… Well, the other 600+ will never forget the experience. They may have auditory damage, PTSD, some other form of injury one way or another, and be, if nothing else, pretty demoralized. And if only 36 were in a place where bombs could have gotten them at all in the first place, then it’s a 100% kill effectiveness rate, and other bombs wouldn’t have done better. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/56 "2017-04-14T14:40:54Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > But which regimes might those be? France & UK won’t do anything w/o our say-so, and Russia/China won’t dare nuke anyone we don’t hate already. As for North Korea, they’d probably be _less_ emboldened, since a big part of their long-term strategy is pushing us to see how far we’re willing to retaliate against anything they do to us or our allies. With nukes on the field against ISIS, there’d be no illusions. India, Pakistan and Israel might have a little to say about it. And the Iranians might consider it somewhat hypocritical that the US is constantly demanding that they shut down their nuclear development when we’re the only country that can’t be trusted not to _use_ its nukes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/57 "2017-04-14T15:31:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What would be the cost in lives to clear out those tunnels on foot? > [@Velocity](#): > > other bombs wouldn’t have done better. Two false dilemmas in two successive posts… ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/58 "2017-04-14T15:39:39Z")
Has anyone else noticed a large increase in idiots now claiming a MOAB is a type of nuclear weapon and thus the US is using “the same thing as chemical weapons”? They must have just seen the news titles of “Largest non-nuclear weapon in the US arsenal” and missed a word. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/59 "2017-04-14T16:07:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > other bombs wouldn’t have done better. /snip mine But they could have done it cheaper. I mean, I love huge explosions just as much as the next person, but this just seems like a gross misuse of the biggest bastard we’ve got that doesn’t leave 100 square miles glowing. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394/60 "2017-04-14T16:33:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Two false dilemmas in two successive posts… A post without meaning. Please explain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-use-of-mother-of-all-bombs-whats-the-status-of-the-us-arsenal-lessons-learned/784394.md?page=4)