# First written "f\*\*\* you"?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 12, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549 "2005-05-12T12:26:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/1 "2005-05-12T12:26:16Z")
I know there’s an old SD column on the origins of the F word, but I couldn’t find any information about the first written occurence of the popular phrase, “fuck you”.
TSD, anyone?
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/2 "2005-05-12T13:17:33Z")
What does “TSD” mean?
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### Author:  [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/3 "2005-05-12T13:33:10Z")
the straight dope (WAG)
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### Author:  [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/4 "2005-05-12T13:39:56Z")
Partridge’s calls it at “(?) latish C.19.”.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/5 "2005-05-12T13:48:06Z")
From [Word Origins](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorf.htm#fuck):
> [@](#):
>
> The earliest usage cite in the OED2 dates from 1503 and is in the form fukkit. The earliest cite of the current spelling is from 1535.
In other forms it is even earlier:
> [@](#):
>
> Deriving the etymology of this word is difficult, as it has been under a taboo for most of its existence and citations are rare. The earliest known use, according to American Heritage and Lighter, predates 1500 and is from a poem written in a mix of Latin and English and entitled Flen flyys. The relevant line reads:
>
> Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli.
>
> Translated:
>
> They [the monks] are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of Ely [a town near Cambridge].
>
> Fuccant is a pseudo-Latin word and in the original it is written in cipher to further disguise it.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/6 "2005-05-12T14:38:56Z")
The OED gives the first written use of “fuck” as an imprecation in James Joyce’s _Ulysses_, “God fuck old Bennett”. _Ulysses_ was published in 1922, but set in 1904 (on 16th June, 1904, to be precise). Earlier written use of “fuck” was with the meaning of sexual intercourse. Note that _Ulysses_ was banned in some English-speaking countries for, among other things, its use of the word “fucK” in print, so it’s going to be hard to find much written evidence of the word over several centuries, even if it was frequently used in speech.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/7 "2005-05-12T14:43:31Z")
Note also that “fuck” does not appear in the first edition of the OED, even though the editors undoubtedly knew the word. They would have decided not to give an entry for it and a few other taboo words, but changed the decision with the supplement published in 1972.
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### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/first-written-f-you/303549/8 "2005-05-12T14:47:26Z")
No citation on the _specific_ imprecation 😛 “fuck you” even though Joyce’s usage is of a similar form?
One does assume that “fuck you” or “fuck him” or “fuck Old Bennett” were used in speech? Differently than the usage “subject fucked object”?