# FISA warrant was used to spy on the Trump campaign and presidency **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242 "2019-12-22T17:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/21 "2019-12-22T21:27:14Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > According to AG Barr, this is spying. > > [NY Times Link](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/us/politics/william-barr-jeffrey-rosen-hearings.html) That’s nice. What’s YOUR opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/22 "2019-12-22T21:35:10Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Barr has zero credibility. Both a Trump toadie and religious nut. > **[Attorney General Barr rages against secularist "assault" on religion](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/10/attorney-general-barr-rages-against-secularist-assault-on-religion/)** > > Barr blames society's problems, including "a deadly drug epidemic," on a lack of faith. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/23 "2019-12-22T21:47:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That’s just a blatant appeal to authority, tho. Besides, Barr’s opinion is only notable because it is different from the vast majority of people. So that’s not a very good appeal to authority since he’s in the (serious) minority of people holding that opinion. A vast majority of people believed that Trump conspired/colluded with the Russians and the Mueller Report blew that entire narrative out of the water. Of course people aren’t convinced because of the information they digested. A vast majority of people also believed that the Steel Dossier didn’t play a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order. We now know that it did play a central and essential role. A vast majority of people believed the Schiff Memo was accurate and that the Nunes Memo was inaccurate. We now know thanks to the IG Report that the Nunes Memo was accurate and the Schiff Memo was inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/24 "2019-12-22T21:50:17Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Well there’s your problem right there. Barr is Trump’s ass-licking toady. He’ll say anything to make that ass happy. Thanks to Barr we have John Durham currently investigating the wrongdoing that occurred against the Trump campaign and presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/25 "2019-12-22T22:21:06Z")
Why does the OP rely on two articles from 2018? With the IG report released, surely it would be much more compelling to just quote the parts of the report that show that the FBI abused their “license to hop”. The part of the IG report that discusses the FBI surveillance of Bannon while he worked in the White House is certainly going to be a lot more convincing than an almost two year old article from Kyle Cheney speculating that they may have done so. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/26 "2019-12-22T22:29:49Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > [Warrantless Surveillance Under Section 702 of FISA](https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/warrantless-surveillance-under-section-702-fisa) So when Trump reauthorized that section and then tweeted this, what was he saying? > [@](#): > > Just signed 702 Bill to reauthorize foreign intelligence collection. This is NOT the same FISA law that was so wrongly abused during the election. I will always do the right thing for our country and put the safety of the American people first! > **[President Donald Trump has signed the FISA reauthorization bill](https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/20/16913534/president-donald-trump-signed-fisa-amendments-reauthorization-act-of-2017-section-702)** > > Act is up for reauthorization in 2023 ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/27 "2019-12-22T22:48:41Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > So when Trump reauthorized that section and then tweeted this, what was he saying? > [President Donald Trump has signed the FISA reauthorization bill - The Verge](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/1/20/16913534/president-donald-trump-signed-fisa-amendments-reauthorization-act-of-2017-section-702) Being Donald Trump he’s saying whatever he’s saying. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/28 "2019-12-22T22:50:15Z")
Perhaps I’m missing something still - is it bad that law enforcement can do this, or is it just specifically bad that they allegedly did this to the Trump campaign in particular? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/29 "2019-12-22T22:54:59Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Thanks to Barr we have John Durham currently investigating the wrongdoing that occurred against the Trump campaign and presidency. At the conclusion of which either Durham will find extensive evidence of FBI wrongdoing, or Barr will tell us that he did. Have you tried the Blastin’ Berry Cherry? Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/30 "2019-12-22T22:57:11Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > A vast majority of people believed the Schiff Memo was accurate and that the Nunes Memo was inaccurate. We now know thanks to the IG Report that the Nunes Memo was accurate and the Schiff Memo was inaccurate. Easy, Phil. Take it easy. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/31 "2019-12-22T22:57:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Perhaps I’m missing something still - is it bad that law enforcement can do this, or is it just specifically bad that they allegedly did this to the Trump campaign in particular? Here’s the thing. There was speculation two years ago that the FBI might be abusing this power to spy on the Trump White House. Recently the IG released his report that made all that speculation moot. We know for a fact that the FBI did not abuse their ‘license to hop’ to spy on White House officials. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/32 "2019-12-22T23:00:40Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Being Donald Trump he’s saying whatever he’s saying. So we can discount whatever Trump says about FISA warrants, right? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/33 "2019-12-22T23:22:28Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > So we can discount whatever Trump says about FISA warrants, right? I don’t think this has anything to do with a FISA warrant being used to spy on the Trump campaign and presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/34 "2019-12-22T23:24:12Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I don’t think this has anything to do with a FISA warrant being used to spy on the Trump campaign and presidency. So… What _about_ a FISA warrant being used to spy on the Trump campaign and presidency? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/35 "2019-12-22T23:31:45Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Here’s the thing. There was speculation two years ago that the FBI might be abusing this power to spy on the Trump White House. > > Recently the IG released his report that made all that speculation moot. We know for a fact that the FBI did not abuse their ‘license to hop’ to spy on White House officials. It wasn’t speculation to those tasked with oversight of the agency. Members (republican and democratic) of the intelligence committee had access to evidence that showed the FBI was abusing it’s power. Nunes penned a memo which was widely dismissed by the media. Schiff penned a counter memo which was embraced by the media. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/36 "2019-12-22T23:42:17Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > According to AG Barr, … Really? > [@EasyPhil](#): > > Being Donald Trump he’s saying whatever he’s saying. Yeah, OK. EasyPhil, thanks for making yourself memorable. _Makes mental note not to forget_ ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/37 "2019-12-23T00:07:18Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It wasn’t speculation to those tasked with oversight of the agency. But it was speculation in the two and only two sources you linked in your OP. It’s your thread and you started it with those two year old speculative articles about the the possibility that the FBI could use its ‘license to hop’ to spy on the Trump admin. That’s weird because the IG report has shown us that those speculative articles were off base. The IG report shows us that the FBI did not use its ‘license to hop’ to spy on the Trump admin. Why did you base your OP on two year old speculation and not on current facts? There was someone running around posting about how everyone should read the IG report. You should take that dude’s advice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/38 "2019-12-23T00:56:03Z")
I gather by now our knees are un-jerked by the idea that the Trump campaign may have been investigated, so what \*else \*do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/39 "2019-12-23T02:01:19Z")
The only issue here, to me, is this highlights the bullshit rubber stamp that is the FISA court. They have approve almost all requests by law enforcement agencies. > [@](#): > > Between 1979 and 2012—the first thirty-three years of the FISC’s existence—federal agencies submitted 33,900 ex parte requests to the court. The judges denied eleven and granted the rest: a 99.97% rate of approval. > > SOURCE: [Is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Really a Rubber Stamp?](https://www.stanfordlawreview.org/online/is-the-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court-really-a-rubber-stamp/) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242/40 "2019-12-23T02:32:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The only issue here, to me, is this highlights the bullshit rubber stamp that is the FISA court. They have approve almost all requests by law enforcement agencies. Which is why when FISA finally, finally, finally speaks up and protests (as a result of an IG report), color me unimpressed. They have known for 40 years what their process involves, and that they rubber stamp warrants (probably a vast majority after the investigations have already started). If there’s any issue with FISA, it’s been there all along; it has nothing to do with Trump and Russia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fisa-warrant-was-used-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-and-presidency/845242.md?page=3)