# Fish and fishes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 17, 2001, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469 "2001-01-17T05:36:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/1 "2001-01-17T05:36:43Z")
When do you use fishes? An art project near Bob’s apartment consists of cut-outs of fish painted and affixed to a fence. He says they’re (collectively) fishes, and I say fish is correct. ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/2 "2001-01-17T05:43:46Z")
Yes, sometimes it’s ‘fishes’! Mostly I’d use ‘fish’ for the plural, especially if they’re pretty much undifferentiated (“a boatload of fish”), but if they’re distinct or at least numbered, I’d say ‘fishes’ (“loaves and fishes” or “those fishes that the schoolkids spent so much time decorating and hung on the fence”). So there! ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/3 "2001-01-17T05:44:59Z")
And BTW, happy 1500! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stupendous\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Stupendous\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stupendous_man)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/4 "2001-01-17T06:01:06Z")
Personally, I’d refer to them as “fish”, providing they are the same species. Fish of varying species or types I refer to as “fishes”, or if referring to all of the varying species of fish life on earth collectively. ---
**Author:** ![funneefarmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@funneefarmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/funneefarmer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/5 "2001-01-17T19:09:12Z")
From [http://www.m-w.com](http://www.m-w.com) “Main Entry: 1fish Pronunciation: 'fish Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural fish or fish·es Usage: often attributive Etymology: Middle English, from Old English fisc; akin to Old High German fisc fish, Latin piscis Date: before 12th century” From [“Marking Oppositions in Verbal and Nominal Collectives” -Suzanne Kemmer, Department of Linguistics, UCSD](http://crl.ucsd.edu/newsletter/7-3/Article1.html) "Consider the following examples of English nouns that are said to have two plural forms, taken verbatim from Meiklejohn (1891), a traditional English grammar. The parenthetical explanations are Meiklejohn’s.7 … ``` fish , fishes (looked at separately), fish (taken collectively)" ``` ---
**Author:** ![Renton\_lvr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7feea3/32.png) [@Renton\_lvr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renton_lvr)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/6 "2001-01-17T20:03:39Z")
“Luca Brasi sleeps with the fish” just doesn’t sound right does it? ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-and-fishes/50469/7 "2001-01-17T21:07:41Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=11761) from a long time ago, **SqrlCub** confirms what **Stupendous man** said. (You have to scroll way down.)