# Fish oil in the diet - some questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465 "2012-05-10T02:45:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/1 "2012-05-10T02:45:38Z")
To try and keep myself off perpetual anti-inflammatories, and to improve my cholesterol levels (ie to raise HDL and lower LDL) I thought I’d try taking fish oil capsules, which claim to help both; supposedly through elevating omega-3 levels in the body. The ones I have are the chemist’s own brand, and are 1500mg each. I’ve started by taking 6 a day to get a real jump start on any benefits there might be. I haven’t had my bloods done yet but I’ve noticed no change in my general inflammation issues. So some questions for those who might have some actual knowledge in this area: 1/ does taking omega-3 orally actually raise its level in one’s general system? 2/ are fish oil capsules an effective way of delivering it? 3/ is there reputable data on its effectiveness in improving cholesterol levels, and in lowering inflammation? 4/ is it as good as the same quantity of omega-3 taken in by eating actual fish? Thanks for any informed commentary! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/2 "2012-05-10T04:56:56Z")
1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. More so an improved lipid profile, specifically decreasing triglyceride levels with sufficient intake. And yes for some elements of inflammation. 4. Sort of. Eating that much fish might also result in a decrease in other foods, some of which might have adverse nutritional effects. OTOH that much of some fish might increase the risk of toxin exposures (e.g. mercury). ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/3 "2012-05-11T02:01:37Z")
Well thank you! Yes, I wasn’t really meaning to eat so much fish that I’d trigger negative effects! It was more the thought that with iron, for instance, it matters how its delivered - iron in veges is not as easily absorbed as iron in red meat. So perhaps omega-3 in actual fish could be better than it pure in capsule form (it might say be better absorbed in combination with other substances in fish). But from what you say the capsules are good and I may as well stay on them for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/4 "2012-05-11T02:18:55Z")
If you are eating 6 1.5 gram capsules a day, then that is way too much and may actually endanger your health. [Seriously](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Risks): > [@](#): > > In a letter published October 31, 2000,[89] the United States Food and Drug Administration Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Office of Nutritional Products, Labeling, and Dietary Supplements noted that known or suspected risks of EPA and DHA consumed in excess of 3 grams per day may include the possibility of: > > ``` > Increased incidence of bleeding > Hemorrhagic stroke > Oxidation of omega-3 fatty acids, forming biologically active oxidation products > Increased levels of low-density lipoproteins (LDL) cholesterol or apoproteins associated with LDL cholesterol among diabetics and hyperlipidemics > Reduced glycemic control among diabetics > > ``` Now of course, the capsules might be 1.5 grams but only a portion may be actual omega-3 (which should be stated on the label). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/5 "2012-05-11T11:48:03Z")
A very cogent point. More than a certain dose is not necessarily better. If [this](http://www.chemistsown.com.au/products_124.htm) is the Chemist’s Own brand being used then they have 300 mg of combined EPA and DHA per 1000 mg of fish oil. That would leave our op still under that 3 g/d of combined EPA and DHA. [The 2002 AHA advisory](http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/106/21/2747.full) on fish oil states the following on safety: > [@](#): > > Since the first omega-3 fatty acid advisory,1 the FDA has ruled that intakes of up to 3 g/d of marine omega-3 fatty acids are GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) for inclusion in the diet.110 This ruling included specific consideration of the reported effects of omega-3 fatty acids on glycemic control in patients with diabetes, on bleeding tendencies, and on LDL cholesterol. Moreover, the FDA recently has approved a qualified health claim for EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids in dietary supplements.64 > > Although the safety of low intakes does not seem to be an issue, and supplements are essentially mercury free, some side effects of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation do occur (Table 4).111 Perhaps the most common is a fishy aftertaste. In the GISSI Prevention study, which provided 0.85 g of omega-3 fatty acids per day for 3.5 years, 3.8% of patients discontinued taking their supplements (compared with 2.1% for the vitamin E group). Gastrointestinal disturbances and nausea were the most commonly reported side effects, with 4.9% and 1.4% reported, respectively, compared with 2.9% and 0.4% in the vitamin E group. When 12 capsules containing 6 g of omega-3 fatty acids were fed to 41 patients for 2.4 years, three patients dropped from the study claiming intolerance to the capsules.46 In a 6-month trial providing 275 patients with 6.9 g of EPA+DHA in 10 capsules daily, there was no difference between the fish oil and corn oil control groups for any adverse event.112 Gastrointestinal upset was reported by 8% of the latter and 7% of the former. Finally, although refined and concentrated omega-3 fatty acid products contain virtually no methylmercury and are very low in organochloride contaminants,113 less well-controlled preparations can contain appreciable amounts.114 ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/6 "2012-05-11T20:22:47Z")
I hope the OP won’t mind me asking a question related to **Michael63129** ’s post, particularly: > [@](#): > > Increased levels of low-density lipoproteins (LDL) cholesterol or apoproteins associated with LDL cholesterol among diabetics and hyperlipidemics While I certainly have my problems, my cholesterol, including total and HDL, have historically been good. My doctor recommended I start taking fish oil capsules to raise my LDL, which is a bit low. So I started taking 1000mg capsules, 2x day, for several months. My last two blood panels show elevated HDL and total cholesterol, and there have been no other changes in my diet, activity, or lifestyle. I was at a loss to explain it, and the doctor put me on cholesterol meds. For those who are familiar with study data: could the fish oil have actually hurt my cholesteral profile? I do have relatively high blood sugar (my A1C reading, IIRC, is typically mid-high 6s). ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/7 "2012-05-11T22:54:36Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > My last two blood panels show elevated HDL and total cholesterol, and there have been no other changes in my diet, activity, or lifestyle. I was at a loss to explain it, and the doctor put me on cholesterol meds. Are you sure that it was HDL that was elevated? Because if so, then it doesn’t make much sense to put you on cholesterol-lowering medication, since a higher HDL number is better (can it be too high? I don’t know but [here is one doctor’s opinion of high HDL readings](http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA70637/HDL-Too-High.html)), but perhaps they were looking at the total cholesterol only. Also, [on this site](http://www.healthcentral.com/heart-disease/c/45112/60628/questions-dr), they say that a (erroneously?) high HDL reading could be associated with diabetes (you mentioned having relatively high blood sugar, maybe not diabetes yet but prediabetes). ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/8 "2012-05-12T15:06:32Z")
You are right, Michael63129 - I was put on cholesterol meds to address my now-high LDL. Also, the doctor suggested fish oil to raise my HDL, rather than what I said (boy, what a mess). But my main point is still accurate: traditionally, my LDL and total cholesterol has been good; after taking fish oil for several months, it became bad. I’m suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/9 "2012-05-12T15:51:33Z")
Well that’s why I parsed my response how I did. Omega 3’s can indeed (typically modestly) raise LDL while overall improving the lipid profile. From the linked AHA statement: > [@](#): > > In a comprehensive review of human studies, Harris57 reported that ≈4 g/d of omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil decreased serum triglyceride concentrations by 25% to 30%, with accompanying increases in LDL cholesterol of 5% to 10% and in HDL cholesterol of 1% to 3%. “LDL bad” unfortunately does not really do justice to the significance of the lipid profile. Many currently advocate moving from the focus on LDL to focusing more on the total cholesterol minus HDL number (non-HDL-C) which includes other atherogenic components than LDL alone (like VLDC for example). LDL itself can consist of different sorts of particles and fish oil may also alter that balance in a beneficial manner. [This abstract](http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/18536782) makes the point: > [@](#): > > While omega-3 fatty acids may sometimes increase low- density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) levels in hypertriglyceridemic patients, non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (non-HDL-C) levels are often decreased. This has clinical significance because: 1) non-HDL-C sums the cholesterol carried by atherogenic lipoproteins beyond that of LDL-C alone; 2) non-HDL-C is a better predictor of atherogenic risk compared to LDL-C alone … FWIW. (And certainly not intending anything to specifically apply to you.) ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/10 "2012-05-13T01:42:22Z")
decades ago while stuck in traffic i listened to power lifters discussing their aches and pains (this was via an ancient informational format called A.M.) and they said salmon oil was the best thing for it. so i tried salmon oil for my osteoarthritis and have taken it ever since. i’ve also had older friends get good results (sometimes spectacular) taking it for rheumatoid arthur. and the late great dr. atkins always spoke highly of its cardio benefits. so try salmon oil capsules rather than just fishy old fish, 2-3 twice daily, and don’t worry about omega 3 and anti oxidant this and that, it’s all pop voodoo science… ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/11 "2012-05-13T01:57:31Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > decades ago while stuck in traffic i listened to power lifters discussing their aches and pains (this was via an ancient informational format called A.M.) and they said salmon oil was the best thing for it. so i tried salmon oil for my osteoarthritis and have taken it ever since. i’ve also had older friends get good results (sometimes spectacular) taking it for rheumatoid arthur. and the late great dr. atkins always spoke highly of its cardio benefits. so try salmon oil capsules rather than just fishy old fish, 2-3 twice daily, and don’t worry about omega 3 and anti oxidant this and that, it’s all pop voodoo science… wait… Omega-3s and anti-oxidants are “pop voodoo science,” yet salmon oil is not just because some power lifters swear by it? do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/12 "2012-05-13T05:56:56Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > If you are eating 6 1.5 gram capsules a day, then that is way too much and may actually endanger your health. [Seriously](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Risks): Yeah, I took that much because it was the highest dose mentioned on the label. I had always intended to drop down after I went through the first jar, which I’ve just now done. I’m now taking 4 x 1g caps a day. > [@](#): > > Now of course, the capsules might be 1.5 grams but only a portion may be actual omega-3 (which should be stated on the label). My current ones say: Fish oil (Natural) 1g containing omega-3 marine Triglycerides 300mg as: EPA 180mg DHA 120mg So I’m thinking from that they are only 30% omega-3? ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/13 "2012-05-13T10:41:42Z")
Saturated animal fat (grass fed) is an excellent way to raise HDL levels. Coconut oil as well. Sardines, very low on the food chain and ergo low in mercury, are also good. I also recommend straight cod liver oil instead of capsules. Carbohydrates, especially wheat, raise LDL levels. Fructose will raise your triglyceride levels. (Read soft drinks). And last but not least, statins will screw with your whole body. I can easily find cites all over the internet for this data. Too lazy at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/14 "2012-05-13T13:25:01Z")
[Checks site. Straight Dope GQ. Huh.]Cites of powerlifters bemoaning aches and pains on am radio decades ago and of “all over the internet”.[Great.] Yes, **askance** , that’s 300 mg omega 3 per 1000 grams. You are currently supplementing with 1200 mg of omega 3 per day. Established approaches to raising HDL include losing fat mass, increasing exercise, modest alcohol consumption, and increasing monosaturated and some polyunsaturated fats while decreasing trans- and saturated fat intake. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/15 "2012-05-13T21:40:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > \*\*Established approaches to raising HDL \*\*include losing fat mass, increasing exercise, modest alcohol consumption, and increasing monosaturated and some polyunsaturated fats while **decreasing** trans- and **saturated fat intake**. Actually saturated fat consumption _increases_ HDL: [http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/19/4/918.full.pdf](http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/19/4/918.full.pdf) > **[ET 5/98: New study details the saturated fat/cholesterol link](http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0598/et0598s12.html)** [http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/1/50.long](http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/1/50.long) [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/7754989?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/7754989?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn) [http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/297/9/969.full.pdf+html](http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/297/9/969.full.pdf+html) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/16 "2012-05-16T23:05:06Z")
Just wanted to note the very recent publication (May 14) of a meta-analysis regarding the use of fish oils in the treatment of people who already have cardiovascular disease. Bottom line: no significant benefit was evident. [Link to free, full-text article in Archives of Internal Medicine](http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1151420). ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/17 "2012-05-17T01:26:44Z")
Thank you, that is extremely informative. I suppose the only comfort I can take out of that is that it is confined to effects on people already known to have cardiovascular disease, which I’m not. So there may perhaps be a preventative effect on people with, say, elevated LDL levels but not arteriosclerosis to a clinical degree. ---
**Author:** ![mage-girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mage-girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mage-girl)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/18 "2012-05-17T15:07:45Z")
Just a forewarning: My mom was taking Fish Oil for the cardiovascular benefits up until a few months ago. She got - this is gross - oily discharge. Took us awhile to figure out what was doing it. It doesn’t happen to everyone (thank goodness!) so it probably won’t happen to you. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/19 "2012-05-18T04:51:15Z")
Well it hasn’t after over a month, so I doubt it ever will. But thanks for the thought. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fish-oil-in-the-diet-some-questions/621465/20 "2012-06-11T20:06:27Z")
Another recent study result: (published on-line by The New England Journal of Medicine, June 11, 2012) [This time a large, randomized, placebo-controlled trial involving high risk patients. Bottom line: no benefit of fish oil on cardiovascular events.](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1203859?query=OF)