# Fishmongers and Ironmongers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2004, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716 "2004-03-27T09:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/1 "2004-03-27T09:19:40Z")
Are there any other trades the ‘mong’ there wares? Where did the phrase originate and what does it mean (I’m guessing it just means ‘seller’). Would it be possible to use it to describe another business like maybe a Techmonger for a computer store or even a Cockmonger for a gigolo? ---
**Author:** ![RayMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e495f1/32.png) [@RayMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RayMan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/2 "2004-03-27T09:21:21Z")
I hope I’m contributing to intelligent discussion when I mention the term…whoremonger? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/3 "2004-03-27T09:22:58Z")
[Costermonger](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=costermonger) ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/4 "2004-03-27T09:24:40Z")
what exactley would a Whoremonger sell though? Does it mean simply a prostitute (whereby Sexmonger or maybe Quimmonger would be more apt) or someone who actually sells whores like a pimp for example? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/5 "2004-03-27T10:38:26Z")
How about war-monger? Seems to be a popular occupation these days. ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/6 "2004-03-27T11:17:39Z")
So in the case of a war-monger ‘monger’ must mean something else I presume? I’m still confused as to what ‘monger’ actually means. Maybe it is someone who just provides whatever service they are ‘monging’. Just found this on [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): A dealer in a specific commodity. Often used in combination: an ironmonger. A person promoting something undesirable or discreditable. Often used in combination: a scandalmonger; a warmonger. mon·gered, mon·ger·ing, mon·gers To peddle So there you go… ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/7 "2004-03-28T01:30:43Z")
Since I don’t want to be accused of [wordmongering](http://www.onelook.com/?w=*monger*&first=101), here is official list of all the [mongering](http://www.onelook.com/?w=*monger*&ls=a) you can think of, including definitions for [-monger](http://www.onelook.com/?w=-monger). ## Peace. Teach a man to fish: Everyone should bookmark or make a browser shortcut to [www.onelook.com](http://www.onelook.com). A search of _monger_ was all that’s needed. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/8 "2004-03-28T01:35:20Z")
‘Murdermongress’ is just too damn cool to be obscure. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/9 "2004-03-28T01:54:14Z")
The word _monger_ probably starts out life(if you forget about a weird Greek connection) as the Latin _mango_ which means a trader, dealer, etc. Before 975, Old English gives us _mangere_, which then morphs(before 1200) into _mangare_ and shows up in 1274 in a quote as _mongere_ and then it’s off to the monger-races. The first use is actually _haymonger_ from 1174 although you might not recognize the spelling. By the 1500’s it was used in a pejorative sense. This from my Chamber’s Dic. of Etymology. Which is based on OED, etc. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/10 "2004-03-28T02:11:15Z")
> [@WILLASS](#): > > I’m still confused as to what ‘monger’ actually means. Maybe it is someone who just provides whatever service they are ‘monging’. Seller, dealer, promoter. A war-monger mongs war just like a fish-monger mongs fish. They just mong it. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/11 "2004-03-28T02:19:08Z")
> [@WILLASS](#): > > Maybe it is someone who just provides whatever service they are ‘monging’. Just to clarify, my previous post was in jest in that “mong” and “monging” are incorrect and the correct verb is “mongering”. I was just fooling around. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/12 "2004-03-28T03:38:38Z")
So, the Spongmonkeys are Submongers, right? They were moonmongers first. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/13 "2004-03-28T03:56:12Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > The word _monger_ probably starts out life(if you forget about a weird Greek connection) as the Latin _mango_ which means a trader, dealer, etc. Before 975, Old English gives us _mangere_, which then morphs(before 1200) into _mangare_ and shows up in 1274 in a quote as _mongere_ and then it’s off to the monger-races. > > This from my Chamber’s Dic. of Etymology. Which is based on OED, etc. I think you’re reading your _Chambers_ wrong. _Mangere_ and _mango_ should be cognates. Independently passed down from IE. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/14 "2004-03-28T04:08:17Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I think you’re reading your _Chambers_ wrong. _Mangere_ and _mango_ should be cognates. Independently passed down from IE. The exact quote is: monger n. dealer in some particular article. Before 1200 _mangare_; later _mongere_ (1274); developed from Old English (before 975) \* mangere\*, from Latin _mango_ (genative _mangonis_) trader, dealer, borrowed from a Greek word related to _manganon_ contrivance, means of enchanting; ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/15 "2004-03-28T04:11:11Z")
Ewww. We’ve got a wordmongering fight going on here! Can’t wait 'til I tell the others. Peace, The Gossipmongerer. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fishmongers-and-ironmongers/236716/16 "2004-03-29T03:39:00Z")
It’s not a fight. My Chambers is buried in an unknown box somewhere less than handy. A few derivations I’ve seen in my Chambers do not always make clear if something is actually derived from Latin or a cognate. Given the antiquity of the word in Old English, and not likely to have been adopted via Church influence, I am surprised. But I do appreciate the effort **samclem** took to include the quote.