# Five gooold rings: A postseasonal enquiry about a Christmas song **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 8, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135 "2020-01-08T18:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/21 "2020-01-09T01:02:06Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > He was still THE bear in this image from the 1960 edition of World Book. Sometime over the next five or ten years, the USFS started telling us that he had never had any other name than Smokey Bear. > > Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Sorry, I forgot the [link](https://flic.kr/p/2iccXJi). Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/22 "2020-01-09T01:31:17Z")
Based on the oldest posters (not to mention what it says on his hat), he’s neither Smokey The Bear nor Smokey Bear. He’s just [Smokey](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SMOKEY_SAYS_-_CARE_WILL_PREVENT_9_OUT_OF_10_FOREST_FIRES%5E_-_NARA_-_515437.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/23 "2020-01-09T01:46:36Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Based on the oldest posters (not to mention what it says on his hat), he’s neither Smokey The Bear nor Smokey Bear. He’s just [Smokey](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SMOKEY_SAYS_-_CARE_WILL_PREVENT_9_OUT_OF_10_FOREST_FIRES%5E_-_NARA_-_515437.jpg). > **[Smokey the Bear Sutra by Gary Snyder](https://sacred-texts.com/bud/bear.htm)** > > The Smokey the Bear Sutra, by Gary Snyder, at sacred-texts.com Courtesy of Gary Snyder, the last living west coast beatnik. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/24 "2020-01-09T01:52:40Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I’ve heard that it was originally “five goldfinch” but don’t have a cite. That makes a lot of sense. The gifts are mainly bird-oriented (when they are not slave trade-related). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/25 "2020-01-09T03:24:45Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Based on the oldest posters (not to mention what it says on his hat), he’s neither Smokey The Bear nor Smokey Bear. He’s just [Smokey](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SMOKEY_SAYS_-_CARE_WILL_PREVENT_9_OUT_OF_10_FOREST_FIRES%5E_-_NARA_-_515437.jpg). Well now, you wouldn’t expect his hat to say Smokey The Bear, right? He obviously _is_ a bear. We don’t need to be told that. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/26 "2020-01-09T03:32:39Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > That makes a lot of sense. The gifts are mainly bird-oriented (when they are not slave trade-related). So “goldfinch” once had an uninflected plural? Because “five goldfinches” doesn’t work at all with the melody. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/27 "2020-01-09T04:20:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rings made out of gold are cheaper than rings that are gold in color? I think you have that backwards. I think you may be reading it backwards. He said Gold Rings = Real Gold… expensive. Golden = Gold Color… “A little bit cheap there gift giver” ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/28 "2020-01-09T04:51:24Z")
100% gold rings would be worth the metal weight, but not much as far as craftsmanship. You’d dent those relatively quick, gold is pretty soft, which is why they alloy it for rings. 18 karat is roughly 75% gold. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/29 "2020-01-09T07:12:52Z")
Time to revive this commentary on/reaction to the whole fandango: [https://www.timegoesby.net/files/andyetanotherpartridgeinapeartree.mp3](https://www.timegoesby.net/files/andyetanotherpartridgeinapeartree.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/30 "2020-01-09T10:17:44Z")
I’ve always heard it (and sung it) as “five gold rings.” And it’s Smokey the Bear. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/31 "2020-01-09T12:34:13Z")
Golden sounds better, which suggests that gold was the original. Thing usually get “corrected” to sound better. This is used in figuring out which source came first when other data is lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/32 "2020-01-09T14:21:46Z")
The Crayola 108-crayon box has a crayon labeled “gold”, but not one labeled “golden”. I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/33 "2020-01-09T14:38:39Z")
Obligatory John Denver & The Muppets [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MX43ynMvm0) Miss Piggy sings “Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive goollld riiiings!: That settles it for me. BADUM BUM-BUM!” ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/34 "2020-01-09T17:37:05Z")
Smokey the Bear. Eddy Arnold wouldn’t lie: [Smokey the Bear Song- Eddy Arnold (1952) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myz93sXW66Y) Chorus: Smokey the Bear, Smokey the Bear. Prowlin’ and a growlin’ and a sniffin’ the air. He can find a fire before it starts to flame. That’s why they call him Smokey, That was how he got his name. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/35 "2020-01-09T17:45:10Z")
Just passed my 70th nativity. I have ONLY heard it as “golden”. BTW the “golden rings” are those on a ring-necked pheasant, another of the bird trope. Somehow “five ring-necked pheasants” lacks the OOMPH! of the shorter bit. Also too easy to be “five strangled peasants” in a macabre version. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/36 "2020-01-09T20:26:47Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > I think you may be reading it backwards. He said > > Gold Rings = Real Gold… expensive. > > Golden = Gold Color… “A little bit cheap there gift giver” Historically, other than referring to the physical metal as a noun, “gold” was the color. You can have gold curtains but not golden curtains, unless the curtains are made of actual drawn gold wire threads, in which case the curtain rod would come crashing down. Golden things were things made out of gold, and figuratively golden things, like rules and such, were the best figurative things. I blame the United States Mint for referring to the dollar coins as “golden”, thereby cheapening the word and making it sound imitative rather than authentic. It reminds me of how McDonalds has promoted its “chocolaty chip cookies”; you know they have to say “chocolaty” because the product’s nearest allusion to an actual cacao tree is the immigrant cashier who hails from southern Mexico. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/37 "2020-01-09T20:38:08Z")
Somewhere back in the mists of time there was a TV (variety? game?) show which featured a version of the “Twelve Days of Christmas”, in which the gifts corresponded to the similar or identical last names of a hand-picked group of ordinary citizens. There was a professional chorus singing the song, only when it came time for the “gifts” to be mentioned, the individual would sing his own last name, i.e. “Swann”, “Piper”, “Gold” or whatever. My favorite contributor was a sour-looking middle-aged lady named Partridge, who would croak out her name in a surly tone. Trust me, hilarity ensued. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/38 "2020-01-09T21:05:24Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Somewhere back in the mists of time there was a TV (variety? game?) show which featured a version of the “Twelve Days of Christmas”, in which the gifts corresponded to the similar or identical last names of a hand-picked group of ordinary citizens. > > There was a professional chorus singing the song, only when it came time for the “gifts” to be mentioned, the individual would sing his own last name, i.e. “Swann”, “Piper”, “Gold” or whatever. > > My favorite contributor was a sour-looking middle-aged lady named Partridge, who would croak out her name in a surly tone. > > Trust me, hilarity ensued. 🙂 That was _ **I’ve Got a Secret** _, hosted by Steve Allen (probably the Christmas edition). This was sometime in the 1962–65 time frame (before US TV switched from mostly B&W to all-color in 1966). Unfortunately, the only name I remember is “Turtletaub,” which really does mean “turtle dove” in Yiddish. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/39 "2020-01-09T21:06:10Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > [“Also in 1952, songwriters Steve Nelson and Jack Rollins had a successful song named “Smokey the Bear” which was performed by Eddy Arnold. The pair said “the” was added to Smokey’s name to keep the song’s rhythm. During the 1950s, that variant of the name became widespread both in popular speech and in print, including at least one standard encyclopedia, despite Smokey Bear’s name never officially changing. A 1955 book in the Little Golden Books series was called Smokey the Bear and he calls himself by this name in the book.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Bear#Popularity) I was the one who added the phrase “including at least one standard encyclopedia” to the Wiki article. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135/40 "2020-01-09T21:07:40Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Somewhere back in the mists of time there was a TV (variety? game?) show which featured a version of the “Twelve Days of Christmas”, in which the gifts corresponded to the similar or identical last names of a hand-picked group of ordinary citizens. > > There was a professional chorus singing the song, only when it came time for the “gifts” to be mentioned, the individual would sing his own last name, i.e. “Swann”, “Piper”, “Gold” or whatever. > > My favorite contributor was a sour-looking middle-aged lady named Partridge, who would croak out her name in a surly tone. > > Trust me, hilarity ensued. 🙂 That was _ **I’ve Got a Secret** _, hosted by Steve Allen (probably the Christmas edition). This was sometime in the 1962–65 time frame (before US TV switched from mostly B&W to all-color in 1966). Unfortunately, the only name I remember is “Turtletaub,” which really does mean “turtle dove” in Yiddish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-gooold-rings-a-postseasonal-enquiry-about-a-christmas-song/846135.md?page=3)