# Five Iranian Boats threaten 3 US Navy ships **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716 "2008-01-08T09:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/101 "2008-01-09T19:27:34Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Indeed, they had a lot of behavior to moderate. What was Saddam supposed to do to enter into select company, i.e., people we aren’t going to invade? [/QUOTE] You want a list? Cooperation in the inspections regime - fully, without the fits and starts and blatant cheating that characterized their “cooperation” prior to 2003 and which, of course, drew a military response from the Clinton Administration. An end to firing on our planes enforcing the No-Fly Zones, which had become an almost daily occurrence by 2002. There was also the Bush assassination attempt, which drew a military response from the Clinton Administration (I wonder whether your skepticism is directed at them - it isn’t as if we were at peace with Iraq during the 1990s, you know). There is more, but this is a good start. You paint a picture of an Iraq that was not a problem to anyone - when the reality was something very different. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/102 "2008-01-09T20:18:36Z")
Actually, I paint no picture at all, I criticize your picture of a situation where war was inevitable. When offered expert testimony that contradicts you, first you demand a cite, and when you get it, you blow it off. Well, he’s just wrong. Kinda hard to argue with the World’s Foremost Authority. The assassination thingy, as you surely know by now, is pretty weak tea. Kuwaiti Intelligence says so? Well, that settles that! No way they could have, like, an agenda. And the shooting at our planes. You believe that? From people who lied to you on a daily basis, they tell you that they shot at our planes…what did Rummy say, over 700 times, and didn’t hit _once!_ Not _once!_ And you buy it, no problem, no doubt, no question, from people who…let me stress this…lied to you every _fucking_ day! You serious? No shit, you believe this crap? Man, don’t open any Nigerian e-mails, I’d hate to see you living in the dumpster behind the 7-11. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/103 "2008-01-09T20:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Man, don’t open any Nigerian e-mails, I’d hate to see you living in the dumpster behind the 7-11. [/QUOTE] there are others who would **pay** to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/104 "2008-01-09T20:41:18Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] The assassination thingy, as you surely know by now, is pretty weak tea. Kuwaiti Intelligence says so? Well, that settles that! No way they could have, like, an agenda. [/QUOTE] Well, as long as you’re talking about testimony, Madeline Albright presented this evidence on the floor of the UN. Are you accusing her of lying now? [QUOTE=elucidator] And the shooting at our planes. You believe that? From people who lied to you on a daily basis, they tell you that they shot at our planes…what did Rummy say, over 700 times, and didn’t hit _once!_ Not _once!_ And you buy it, no problem, no doubt, no question, from people who…let me stress this…lied to you every _fucking_ day! [/QUOTE] Again, this was a constant problem when I was in the Navy during the aforementioned Clinton Administration. Are you accusing him of lying? Rumsfeld wasn’t in the government at the time. I don’t expect you to regard it as a cassus belli, but rest assured I have reason for feeling the way I do. You don’t agree. Fine. But it isn’t as if I formed my opinion out of thin air. Meantime, you deliberately minimize the real problem Iraq posed. We struck them militarily several times in the 1990s. Do you think this was justified? And if so, don’t you think that was because they posed a security threat of some kind? Or if you think it wasn’t justified, then you really should denounce Clinton as a warmonger as well, especially as he kept up sanctions against Iraq that really did hurt an awful lot of ordinary people there. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/105 "2008-01-09T20:51:34Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] An end to firing on our planes enforcing the No-Fly Zones, which had become an almost daily occurrence by 2002. [/QUOTE] Hardly. Our planes were being _targeted_ daily, but certainly not fired upon daily - or even monthly. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/106 "2008-01-09T20:57:01Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Hardly. Our planes were being _targeted_ daily, but certainly not fired upon daily - or even monthly. [/QUOTE] Correction noted. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/107 "2008-01-09T20:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Hardly. Our planes were being _targeted_ daily, but certainly not fired upon daily - or even monthly. [/QUOTE] oh, so that makes it alright…huh? So it’s okay if I wait for my local police car to make its daily cruise thru my neighborhood, point a pistol at the cop, but don’t actually pull the trigger? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/108 "2008-01-09T21:57:42Z")
Not quite that simple, old **Chap**. This whole thing is kinda murky, Rummy swore up down and sideways that the Iraqis were blasting away at our airplanes (IIRC, over “700” times) but for some reason, never seemed to hit anything. Strikes me as rather odd. We discussed this at the time, various opinions. Someone suggested that the Iraqis were firing their missiles without turning on the radar, as this would fetch them a radar-seeking missile up the al-wazoo. Plausible, I suppose, but rather an expensive and useless display of pique. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/109 "2008-01-09T22:12:02Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Well, as long as you’re talking about testimony, Madeline Albright presented this evidence on the floor of the UN. Are you accusing her of lying now?.. [/quote] I have no particular opinion about Ms Allbright. Her credibility, or lack thereof, is spectacularly irrelevent. > [@](#): > > …Again, this was a constant problem when I was in the Navy during the aforementioned Clinton Administration. Are you accusing him of lying? Rumsfeld wasn’t in the government at the time… Is there some reason you keep bring up being in the Navy? So was **Doggyknees,** he’s on my side, does that make us even, military wise? > [@](#): > > … I don’t expect you to regard it as a cassus belli, but rest assured I have reason for feeling the way I do. You don’t agree. Fine. But it isn’t as if I formed my opinion out of thin air… No doubt you have reasons, I just don’t happen to think they’re very good reasons, being as they are largely based on the assurances of people who have been lying to us wholesale for six-seven years now. If you want to believe them credible, I reckon that’s your beeswax. Have you noticed how few of the rest of us do? Well, there’s a reason for that. > [@](#): > > …Meantime, you deliberately minimize the real problem Iraq posed… Nope, that’s my actual opinion. No skullduggery involved. I don’t think Iraq posed much of a problem at all, certainly not a big enough problem to merit the solution, its like dealing with hemmorhoids by shoving a hand grenade up your Nixon and pulling the pin. > [@](#): > > …We struck them militarily several times in the 1990s. Do you think this was justified? And if so, don’t you think that was because they posed a security threat of some kind?.. See above. > [@](#): > > …Or if you think it wasn’t justified, then you really should denounce Clinton as a warmonger as well, especially as he kept up sanctions against Iraq that really did hurt an awful lot of ordinary people there. You seem to feel I’ve got some sort of connection to Bill the Cat, like if you can denigrate him, you prove my opinion biased. Yeah, Bill took some “military action”, so did GeeDub. You see, its a matter of _scale_, all military actions are not equal. The War of Jenkin’s Ear was not WWII, for instance. Scale, **Moto** , _proportion!_ A BB gun is not a howitzer, you get my drift, here? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/110 "2008-01-09T22:15:08Z")
Maybe **Moto** could just change his handle to **But, Clinton!**? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/111 "2008-01-09T22:21:14Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] We discussed this at the time, various opinions. Someone suggested that the Iraqis were firing their missiles without turning on the radar, as this would fetch them a radar-seeking missile up the al-wazoo. Plausible, I suppose, but rather an expensive and useless display of pique. [/QUOTE] One argument is that Saddam wanted to show that he was doing SOMETHING against the planes that were doing all the bombing ( IIRC about 100,000 bombs dropped ), but didn’t dare actually try to take down a plane. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/112 "2008-01-09T22:21:49Z")
Anyone who brings warships together to play games lacks the judgement required to skipper a man o’war. The US and the Soviets (and now China), have a Protocol on Preventing Incidents at Sea. Prohibited actions including; ==Manuevers interfering with carrier flight operations ==Manuvers designed to embarass another ship ==Training weapons on another ship\* ==Training fire-control devices on another ship\* ==Flying over another ship\* \*WTF? You mean people did this stuff? What were they idiots? This is how wars start. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/113 "2008-01-09T22:38:42Z")
Curious about the No-Fly Zones, I looked it up in wikipedia. Wikipedia isn’t the best source in the best source in the world for this type of stuff, and the claims are cited, but here it is anyway: > [@](#): > > In the south, Operation Southern Watch was underway to watch over the persecuted Shi’ite populations. This operation was launched on August 27th, 1992 with the mission of preventing further inhumane acts against civilian populations. Iraq challenged the no-fly zone beginning in December 1992 when a U.S. F-16 shot down a MiG which had locked on to it in the Southern no-fly zone. The next month Allied planes attacked Iraqi SAM sites in the South and bombed a nuclear facility. Baghdad eventually halted firing on patrolling Allied aircraft after August 1993. > > In the aftermath of Operation Desert Fox during December 1998, Iraq announced it would no longer respect the no-fly zones and resumed its efforts in shooting down Allied aircraft. Saddam Hussein offered a $14,000 reward to anyone who could accomplish this task, but no manned aircraft were ever shot down by Iraq. Air strikes by the British and Americans against Iraqi claimed anti-aircraft and military targets continued weekly over the next few years. Doesn’t say how often Iraqis shot at American and British aircraft. I think they should have combined Operation Provide Comfort and Operation Southern Focus, though, and just made it Operation Southern Comfort. It should also be noted that the No-Fly zones weren’t without controversy, and there is a good argument that could made that they were illegal (as in against international law). They certainly weren’t sanctioned by the UNSC and (from the wikipedia article): > [@](#): > > While the enforcing powers had cited United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 as authorising the operations, the resolution contains no such authorization. The Secretary-General of the UN at the time the resolution was passed, Boutros Boutros-Ghali called the no-fly zones “illegal” in a later interview with John Pilger. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/114 "2008-01-09T23:03:36Z")
**Paul** , that works well when you have two or more powers genuinely afraid of each other and afraid of igniting a fuse. Iran is not afraid, despite the fact that it’s Navy is of negligible threat. Even with greater military threats, sometimes a country’s leader wakes up to find his cat has barfed in his slippers, and takes out his anger militarily. Less likely, IMO, is that the ship commander would do such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/115 "2008-01-10T15:09:15Z")
[QUOTE=BlackKnight] Almost lose to the Canadians? [/QUOTE] Sure…but we sure kicked your Canadian Arse at New Orleans! Man, you Canadians fought stupid there. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/116 "2008-01-10T20:14:57Z")
[Bush warns Iran of consequences of any new naval crisis](http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0970631720080110) > [@](#): > > President George W. Bush warned Iran on Wednesday of “serious consequences” if it attacked U.S. ships in the Gulf and said all options were on the table. > > Washington says Iranian boats at the weekend aggressively approached three U.S. Naval ships in the Strait of Hormuz, a major oil shipping route off Iran’s coast, and threatened the ships would explode. > > “We have made it clear publicly and they know our position, and that is there will be serious consequences if they attack our ships, pure and simple,” Bush told a news conference in Jerusalem. “My advice to them is don’t do it.” [US protests Iran harassment of US ships](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080110/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iran_11) > [@](#): > > The United States on Thursday lodged a formal diplomatic protest with Iran over an incident last weekend in which Iranian speedboats harassed U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf. > > The protest repeats U.S. complaints about Sunday’s “provocative” action in the Strait of Hormuz and was sent to the Iranian Foreign Ministry via the Swiss Embassy in Tehran, which represents U.S. interests in Iran, the State Department said. > > “It reiterates the points that we have made publicly in the last few days,” deputy spokesman Tom Casey told reporters. “We certainly don’t want to see the Iranians taking any kind of provocative actions or provocative steps against our ships or against any ships that are transiting what is a primary international waterway.” > > In Tehran, Iranian Foreign Ministry officials said they were unaware of the U.S. protest. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/117 "2008-01-10T20:28:45Z")
The Iranians have released their own tapes of the incident (though incomplete). It raises doubts about the identity of the guy on the radio threatening the US ship. [Here.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7180567.stm) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/118 "2008-01-10T21:02:18Z")
This part sounds fishy to me personally: > [@](#): > > “Coalition warship number 73 this is an Iranian patrol,” the Iranian commander is heard to say in clear English in the footage, broadcast on Iran’s English-language Press TV . > > “This is coalition warship number 73. I am operating in international waters,” comes the reply. I’ve never heard a US warship say something like that…though I wasn’t a communications tech either so take that with a grain of salt. Still sounds fishy to me. I do find it interesting that this is ramping up. At first the US was saying that we would not even formally protest this…and now that it looks like it’s getting traction we are really milking this incident for all it’s worth. I take back some of the things I said earlier in the thread to 'luci et al. While I still think this was a serious incident it’s purely a political circus act now IMHO with Bush and his merry men playing it for all it’s worth. -XT ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/119 "2008-01-10T21:10:48Z")
_USS Port Royal_, is a Ticonderoga class cruiser with the hull/penant number of CG-73… ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716/120 "2008-01-10T21:14:14Z")
In the Iranian video, what was the gent in the boat requesting? I couldn’t cut through his accent, sorry. I heard “Coalition vessel number 73… request side number (something) helo (something), over.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-iranian-boats-threaten-3-us-navy-ships/432716.md?page=7)