# Five Reality Checks For Democrats: Dump Kofi, Moore, Dopes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022 "2004-11-16T06:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/1 "2004-11-16T06:53:28Z")
The article is in the [**New York Observer**](http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage3.asp), which I understand is not part of the “conservative media”. The five points are: [ul][li]Bush is not an idiot.[/li]If Bush is an idiot and he has beaten us twice, what does that make us? [li]Kofi Annan is not an oracle[/li]This week Mr. Annan, for his part, advocated against the taking of any action against Falluja, without offering any viable alternative—probably because there isn’t one. Now if Mr. Annan were an oracle, he would know that inaction would lead to greater peace and stability. But since he isn’t one, it is at least as possible that a U.N.-backed approach would cause the situation to deteriorate even further. [li]Michael Moore is not Everyman.[/li]He should never have been appointed Democratic ambassador to the working man. [li]Women are not ovaries with feet.[/li]American women come in all shapes and colors. Three of those colors are conservative, very conservative and extremely conservative. Thus, it is time to shed the notion that politicians who are 100 percent for abortion rights are good for women, regardless of what else they favor. [li]To be an American is not an embarrassment.[/li]Democrats cannot lay claim to leading a country when so many of them speak so frequently about leaving the country.[/ul] The journalist speaks about we, us and our so he also is not the “house conservative”. He is speaking as a liberal. The _reality check_ that interests me the most is #5, since I can’t imagine conservatives saying they were leaving if Kerry had won. There seems to be too much to discuss in detail, but there was no way to divide it up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/2 "2004-11-16T07:04:39Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > [li]Michael Moore is not Everyman.[/li]He should never have been appointed Democratic ambassador to the working man. Who appointed Michael Moore anything? He does actually have working-class roots. He’s rich now because he’s a successful filmmaker. > [@](#): > > [li]To be an American is not an embarrassment.[/li]Democrats cannot lay claim to leading a country when so many of them speak so frequently about leaving the country. “So many?” “So frequently?” Say what? > [@](#): > > The journalist speaks about we, us and our so he also is not the “house conservative”. He is speaking as a liberal. Yeah, I wrote a version of that column myself about nine months ago. Although I didn’t blame everything on Michael Moore (who is making more of an impact now, and is viewed as an Official Democratic Spokesman by Republicans and not Democrats) and Kofi Annan (same, I think). I don’t know who trusts him as an oracle in the first place. The first point does not refute the notion that Bush is an idiot, which is irrelevant in any case. He didn’t win this time because the Democrats underestimated him. Doing more to appeal to women would be a good idea. On the other hand, the Supreme Court should’ve been more of an issue in this campaign for pro-choice people. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/3 "2004-11-16T07:08:52Z")
Michael Moore was the reason the election was even this close. It took Giuliani to win the election for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/4 "2004-11-16T07:17:01Z")
[li]Michael Moore is not Everyman.[/li]He should never have been appointed Democratic ambassador to the working man. More like self-appointed, or anointed. But that doesn’t really matter; what matters is that he brought out a film and a paperback whose aim (besides making money and winning awards) was to get rid of Bush. He was associated (by both Dems and Repubs) with the Democratic cause. If he goes ahead and makes more films/books, he will prove that there does exist one more stupid than Bush. [li]Women are not ovaries with feet.[/li]American women come in all shapes and colors. Three of those colors are conservative, very conservative and extremely conservative. Thus, it is time to shed the notion that politicians who are 100 percent for abortion rights are good for women, regardless of what else they favor. Excellent point. Not only with regard to women, but also as a general principle. The majority of people don’t take kindly to people pandering to them, or to those who presume to act as their spokesperson from a position of greater knowledge or moral superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/5 "2004-11-16T07:18:39Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > If he goes ahead and makes more films/books, he will prove that there does exist one more stupid than Bush. I don’t really get how Michael Moore is stupider than Bush. People say Bush can’t be stupid because he did what he set out to do. Well, so does Moore. > [@](#): > > The majority of people don’t take kindly to people pandering to them, or to those who presume to act as their spokesperson from a position of greater knowledge or moral superiority. I question whether that’s true. I think a more accurate comment would be “people really hate pandering when it’s so obvious that they notice it.” ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/6 "2004-11-16T07:29:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t really get how Michael Moore is stupider than Bush. People say Bush can’t be stupid because he did what he set out to do. Well, so does Moore. True re doing well in his chosen career(s). But not true re kicking Bush out. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/7 "2004-11-16T07:57:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t really get how Michael Moore is stupider than Bush. People say Bush can’t be stupid because he did what he set out to do. Well, so does Moore. In the first place I didn’t write it, but I did read it and nowhere did it say Michael Moore is stupider than Bush. Did another read the article or did everyone just read the part I posted? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/8 "2004-11-16T08:12:43Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > In the first place I didn’t write it, but I did read it and nowhere did it say Michael Moore is stupider than Bush. I was responding to **roger thornhill**. That’s why there was a quote prior to that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/9 "2004-11-16T08:33:43Z")
The Democrats have just been losing lately. Trends like this have developed many times in the history of America. Eventually the Republicans will again be the minority party and out of power in the White House, these things happen. The Democrats really just need to simplify things, don’t overcomplicate them. Examine why you lost elections and don’t make the same mistakes. Firstly nominate a moderate, the Republicans did it with Bush in 2000 (yes, Bush was a legitimate moderate four years ago) and the Democrats did it in 2000 as well with Al Gore. Secondly, manage your campaign better! That’s just good old fashioned skullduggery politics. My personal analysis is Gore was the stronger candidate of the last two, but his campaign wasn’t managed as well as Kerry’s. Kerry I feel was the weaker candidate for a few reasons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/10 "2004-11-16T08:46:33Z")
Let me offer a few reality checks as well. If you were blindfolded in an auditorium that seats 1000, and 480 of them yelled “Yes!” and 510 yelled “No!”, do you really imagine you would have reeled away, convinced that the overwhelming majority had cried out “No!” ? Yet we are supposed to cringe like Dracula/crucifix at the thunderous, overwhelming avalanche of a landslide mandate. Please. Give us credit for the good sense God gave a goose, OK? Michael Moore, Schmichael Moore, who do you think Jack Chick voted for? Don’t matter if GeeDubya is dumb or not. Trouble is, he thinks he’s a Leader of Men, destined to leave big footprints in the Sands of History. He is not. He is a pleasant enough mediocrity, born on third base, believes he hit a triple. Yes, he is a firm and unwaving leader. So was Custer. Yes, he has elements of Churchill and Napolean, but the Churchill of Gallipoli, the Napolean of Moscow. He has unswervingly and resolutely blundered us into a shitstorm, with no exit strategy other than pixie dust. We deserve better. You don’t, you voted for him. But we’re all in the same handbasket, and there is no brake pedal in a Hell-bound handbasket. And, no, it isn’t all Clinton’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/11 "2004-11-16T08:57:03Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > If Bush is an idiot and he has beaten us twice, what does that make us? I’m not necessarily saying that Bush is an idiot, but your argument is flawed. Winning an election does not necessarily mean one is intelligent, nor that the loser is not _more_ intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/12 "2004-11-16T09:16:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He has unswervingly and resolutely blundered us into a shitstorm, with no exit strategy other than pixie dust. I made it as far as shitstorm, but pixie dust is a bit frivolous. > [@](#): > > We deserve better. You don’t, you voted for him. And if Kerry had won would I have deserved better? Or is your distaste for Bush the only realistic point of view? I did something stupid, right? Did you read the article? > [@](#): > > But we’re all in the same handbasket We’re in agreement there? > [@](#): > > and there is no brake pedal in a Hell-bound handbasket. That should help solve all our problems. > [@](#): > > And, no, it isn’t all Clinton’s fault. You’ll never believe this, but I’d like to go back to 1999 again too. My opinion was that in 2000 we had to pick between two spoiled rich boys. This time one of those was replaced by a spoiled unbelievably rich boy. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/13 "2004-11-16T09:20:50Z")
Funny how voters seem to consider just about every factor _other_ than a candidate’s ability to be an effective president. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/14 "2004-11-16T09:42:15Z")
In the past, authors like this have been dismissed by Democrats in charge of policy and strategy. My fond hope is that continues to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/15 "2004-11-16T10:05:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In the past, authors like this have been dismissed by Democrats in charge of policy and strategy. Especially in the immediate aftermath of an election, it seems to me that the immediate impulse of the losing party is to panic, change course, and revamp everything. The reality is that the panic is unwarranted, especially when you lose a close election. There are some things the Democrats need to change, but the tendency of some Democrats (and many Republicans) is to treat this past election like it was an absolute, never-had-a-doubt-about-it blowout. Why? So they can advance their own goals: either revamping the Democratic party or just hoping it falls into chaos and becomes marginalized. It was a disappointing loss, but things are not so horrible that the Democrats need to change everything. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/16 "2004-11-16T12:32:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In the past, authors like this have been dismissed by Democrats in charge of policy and strategy. > > My fond hope is that continues to happen. Ahhh, sweet release! The tension that builds up in these threads as we wait for **Bricker** to make his inevitable prediction/admonition is rapturous! “When will he do it?” “Ohh, soon I hope!” “Not me, I like it when he draws it out. Nice and slow - ooo baby!” Now he’s spent. The rest of this thread will be kind of anticlimactic. Thanks, **Bricker** , see you in the next thread. There’s a $20 on the dresser for you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/17 "2004-11-16T16:29:46Z")
I’d put it this way: Bush had to have been one of the most vulnerable incumbent presidents in memory. The Iraq war and the budget defecit were two huge targets on his back. If the Dems couldn’t beat him, who CAN they beat??? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/18 "2004-11-16T16:38:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’d put it this way: Bush had to have been one of the most vulnerable incumbent presidents in memory. The Iraq war and the budget defecit were two huge targets on his back. If the Dems couldn’t beat him, who CAN they beat??? Alan Keyes, baby! Don’t run no Alan Keyes against us, we can whup up on him! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/19 "2004-11-16T16:53:44Z")
Point by point: 1- Bush is not an idiot. Well, yes he is. And yes, many who voted for him are too. If you believe that Iraq and 9/11 were in any way connected, and you voted for him for that reason alone, then you’re a taco short of a combo plate. I believe there are enough of those morons out there who believe that to make all the difference in what should have been a Kerry blowout. 2- Kofi Annan is not an Oracle. Nor is he a Sybase. But he has more credibility throughout the world than Bush’s stooge, Allawi. Bush shat mightily on the UN and rushed to war. For the next four years, the US can expect diddly squat in the way of cooperation from any potential legitimate partners in Iraq. 3- Michael Moore is not everyman. Well, duh. Who said he was? He performed a great public service in showing so forcefully that the emperor had no clothes and wasn’t particularly well hung. He may not relate terribly well to Johnny Cracker, but who cares? They aren’t going our way any way. And I personally am especially proud of Moore for wearing his Michigan State cap all over. 4- Some American women are conservative. Well, duh. We recognize that not all women value reproductive freedom. But those people don’t vote our way anyway. Kerry did not lose any Democratic votes among right wing females, there were no votes there to lose. 5- You can’t lead the country while leaving the country. Not many are. I personally would love to emigrate to Canada on retirement, but hopefully before that comes to pass, the US will turn sharply to the left. The last thing the Dems need is to turn right. Iraq was an anomaly- without it and 9/11, Bush would have been blown out far beyond Rove’s ability to steal elections. So thank you, Mr. Durkin, but I for one will stay the course. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022/20 "2004-11-16T17:21:53Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Now he’s spent. The rest of this thread will be kind of anticlimactic. Thanks, **Bricker** , see you in the next thread. There’s a $20 on the dresser for you. And you should be grateful. Normally, sugar, $20 won’t buy a wink and a squeeze from me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reality-checks-for-democrats-dump-kofi-moore-dopes/275022.md?page=2)