# Five reasons I think Ron Paul style libertarianism is stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 6, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376 "2015-03-06T19:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/81 "2015-03-10T20:24:51Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > . . . There aren’t any neoconservative libertarians, any more than there are any Catholic atheists, obese anorexics, pacifist snipers, or chaste prostitutes. The very terms are contradictions. . . . Well, yes, there are such things. There are pro-choice Catholics, violent pacifists, etc. There are no shortage of pro-Life Democrats and pro-choice Republicans. Do you demand that the Libertarian Party engage in a massive purge, to rid itself of all the neoconservatives taking refuge there? Great. I’d enjoy watching. But the Libertarian Party is a haven for many neoconservatives, and you can’t refute that by making up definitions. Arguing from the dictionary is really bad debate form, and doubly bad when you are the one making up the entries in the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/82 "2015-03-10T20:26:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Libertarianism: You’re entitled to all the freedom you can afford to buy on the open market. > > IOW, plenty for the likes of the Koch’s, little or none for schlubs like us. But think of the immense market for Wal-Mart freedom, freedom for the little guy! We’ll charge really low prices, and then fight for your freedom, to the extent the funds hold out (less our salaries and bonuses.) It isn’t as good as the freedom that rich guys have…but it’s better than none at all! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/83 "2015-03-11T08:47:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > …Libertarians by definition are almost always staunch capitalists. They pay lip service to small business as opposed to behemoth corporations, but in the end, their policies will end up lending support to the plutocracy. .. In their minds, Libertarians probably do truly believe that their philosophy supports the little guy. The small businessman or the entrepreneur who out-competes by doing it better or through the use of better technology. But the reality is that large businesses enjoy economies of scale that make it impossible for small businesses to complete. And disruptive technology often creates a “winner take all” environment with little regard for the people whose industries are disrupted. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/84 "2015-03-11T14:06:57Z")
Is Randy Paul considered a libertarian? Because his signature is on [Tom Cotton’s letter](http://www.cotton.senate.gov/content/cotton-and-46-fellow-senators-send-open-letter-leaders-islamic-republic-iran) to Iran, the one that says the next iteration of the US government may void any agreement based on current negotiations. This would seem like an inappropriate thing for a genuine libertarian, as it greases the rails of the war machine. Perhaps Randy is just a poser? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/85 "2015-03-11T14:14:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Is Randy Paul considered a libertarian? Because his signature is on [Tom Cotton’s letter](http://www.cotton.senate.gov/content/cotton-and-46-fellow-senators-send-open-letter-leaders-islamic-republic-iran) to Iran, the one that says the next iteration of the US government may void any agreement based on current negotiations. This would seem like an inappropriate thing for a genuine libertarian, as it greases the rails of the war machine. Perhaps Randy is just a poser? Rand Paul just couldn’t resist a chance to stick the knife in Obama’s back. Principles don’t matter. Like the Roman Senate of old, these 47 guys just got knife-happy. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/86 "2015-03-11T14:52:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, yes, there are such things. There are pro-choice Catholics, violent pacifists, etc. There are no shortage of pro-Life Democrats and pro-choice Republicans. > > Do you demand that the Libertarian Party engage in a massive purge, to rid itself of all the neoconservatives taking refuge there? Great. I’d enjoy watching. > > But the Libertarian Party is a haven for many neoconservatives, and you can’t refute that by making up definitions. Arguing from the dictionary is really bad debate form, and doubly bad when you are the one making up the entries in the dictionary. Pro-life Democrat is not a contradiction. Catholic atheist is. You keep talking about “all” these neocons in the libertarian movement. NAME some. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/87 "2015-03-11T16:16:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Ron Paul hates neoconservatives, not least because they’re overwhelmingly Jewish. Like Marco Rubio? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/88 "2015-03-11T16:40:42Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > You keep talking about “all” these neocons in the libertarian movement. Guys, can you please take this hijack to another thread? Please? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/89 "2015-03-11T18:25:24Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Pro-life Democrat is not a contradiction. Catholic atheist is. I have fm friends who consider themselves Catholic as an identity but are atheist in belief. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/90 "2015-03-11T20:13:59Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Pro-life Democrat is not a contradiction. Catholic atheist is. > > You keep talking about “all” these neocons in the libertarian movement. > > NAME some. That’s the thing your definitions can’t account for. There are most certainly some atheists who are members of the Catholic Church, who attend and celebrate Mass, who bring their children in for Baptism, and so on. I know a few of those. (Also, I didn’t use the word “all.” You engage once more in a distortion of what I actually said, by the deliberate introduction of words I never wrote.) I personally know several neocons who associate themselves with the Libertarian Party, but I politely decline to name them. Call that McCarthyism if you wish, but I do know these guys. They aren’t “prominent,” but, then, I never said they were: you introduced that word. They may not be “real” libertarians, but they are taking haven in the Libertarian Party. And that was all that was said, and you have not successfully rebutted it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376/91 "2015-03-11T20:21:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Guys, can you please take this hijack to another thread? Please? Sorry. I’ll drop it now. Although I think it is actually relevant to the thread. One of the reasons the modern style of libertarianism is stupid is that it is in the process of being highjacked by people whose actual philosophy contradicts the nominal tenets of libertarianism. It’s sort of like having second thoughts about labor unions, once organized crime became so involved in them. Organized crime and labor rights have nothing to do with each other…in the purest dictionary definition. But Jimmy Hoffa could have told us differently. (Those of us Democrats with experience of Lyndon LaRouche can tell similar stories. Political parties under the laws of free association are very difficult to keep purged of heretical intrusions.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-reasons-i-think-ron-paul-style-libertarianism-is-stupid/714376.md?page=4)