# Five soldiers beat a gay man nearly to death **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706 "2006-03-09T17:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/41 "2006-03-10T13:38:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, this will be a criminal trial, not a court martial, so, (barring a plea to the jury defending homophobia by the defense lawyers), there will be a different sort of trial. (Did Lawson ever attempt to bring charges against his barracks mates? Are you actually comparing similar _legal_ situations?) A court-martial is a criminal trial. It just so happens to be in a particular jurisdiction known as the US Armed Forces. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/42 "2006-03-10T13:43:17Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but having someone lift your wallet doesn’t give you license to beat him senseless with four of your buddies. Prosecute them all to the full extent of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/43 "2006-03-10T13:46:45Z")
Agreed. And take into account only that which is actually relevant to the crime of wich they’re accused. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/44 "2006-03-10T13:49:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but having someone lift your wallet doesn’t give you license to beat him senseless with four of your buddies. Prosecute them all to the full extent of the law. Which they will be - slap on the wrist, told not to do it again, provocation etc etc It just won’t be listed as a “hate crime” (rightly). Still… I wonder if the posts in this thread would have been as vitriolic if the title had been “pathetic lowlife con-artist gets ass handed to him by five big guys” ? The fact that he was gay, and that they were soliders, has fuck all to do with this case… just some dipshit who thought it’d be a good idea to nick a drunk bloke’s wallet while his mates were with him. The lad deserves a Darwin Award for this one, not your sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/45 "2006-03-10T13:52:22Z")
How do you know that’s what they’ll get. Provocation only goes so far in defense. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/46 "2006-03-10T13:56:14Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How do you know that’s what they’ll get. Provocation only goes so far in defense. Just a guess… it’s hardly crime of the century, and I would think a Savannah jury would be on the side of the soldiers here, not the victim. He was well enough to be checked out of hospital, so doubt his injuries are partiuclarly severe, and he’ll not win any “citizen of the year” awards. Let’s be honest… without the whole (mistaken) gay-bashing slant, this would be a total non-story. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/47 "2006-03-10T14:08:50Z")
I disapprove of gay-bashing _qua_ gay-bashing, but it looks sorta like you got less here than you thought, **Homebrew**. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/48 "2006-03-10T14:10:01Z")
Thanks for the explanation, e-logic. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/49 "2006-03-10T14:16:33Z")
> [@e-logic](#): > > He was well enough to be checked out of hospital, so doubt his injuries are partiuclarly severe, and he’ll not win any “citizen of the year” awards. He left the hospital against the advice of his attending physician. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/50 "2006-03-10T14:19:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > A court-martial is a criminal trial. It just so happens to be in a particular jurisdiction known as the US Armed Forces. However, it is not a trial jurored by a dozen random citizens from all walks of life (that were not smart enough to get out of jury duty). The verdict is rendered by officers who are part of the culture of the military. I make no claim that military justice is deficient, in and of itself. However, just as various trials held in various parts of the country are more likely to reflect cultural judgements of the citizenry (often giving harsher sentences when victims are white than when they are black, for example), so military courts would seem to be potentially susceptible to cultural influences (harsher sentences for crimes against heterosexuals than homosexuals, for example). At any rate, I have already noted that I hold the Lawson situation suspect as an analogy, since no information was presented regarding any actions that were actually brought before a court martial. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/51 "2006-03-10T14:20:55Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > He left the hospital against the advice of his attending physician. Not suprised, since he was wanted in several states and had just committed theft. Seriously… I can’t believe people are still trying to fly the flag for this moron. The 5 guys will be up on an assault charge and justice will be done, but if I were in Georgia and I stole a squaddie’s wallet (while his mates were there) the very least I’d expect if I were caught would be a kicking. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/52 "2006-03-10T14:22:15Z")
I admit I may have missed that point in the links above, Otto; however, could you post a cite for that assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/53 "2006-03-10T14:31:02Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I disapprove of gay-bashing _qua_ gay-bashing, but it looks sorta like you got less here than you thought, **Homebrew**. And I was supposed to magically know that despite the news reports I had at the time? The story was apparently misreported in the beginning and it appeared to be a typical gay-bashing incident. However, the fact remains that at least one of the soldiers told police the sexuality of the victim was the motivation. > [@](#): > > After their arrest, police say one of the men used a slur while telling them he attacked Bennett because Bennett was gay. The homophobic attitudes of these soldiers likely led them to nearly kill the guy. Regardless of his own criminal record, the fact remains they almost killed a man over a fucking wallet AND that he is gay. They are no less despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/54 "2006-03-10T14:39:09Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > And I was supposed to magically know that despite the news reports I had at the time? Didn’t stop the knee-jerk reaction though, eh? Unless you can show that he was thumped that much harder because he was gay, you’ve got nothing to work with here. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/55 "2006-03-10T14:57:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by HPL > Toss’em in jail with a big guy named Bubba. > > I suspect it put what they did in a new light. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Silenus > I’m sure there a number of cons in Georgia jails that could teach them a thing or three about assault. Do you guys normally cheerlead for rapists or is this someting new? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/56 "2006-03-10T14:57:56Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > And I was supposed to magically know that despite the news reports I had at the time? No, but y’know, I sorta think you were predisposed to think that this was gay-bashing and nothing but. > [@Homebrew](#): > > The story was apparently misreported in the beginning and it appeared to be a typical gay-bashing incident. However, the fact remains that at least one of the soldiers told police the sexuality of the victim was the motivation. > > The homophobic attitudes of these soldiers likely led them to nearly kill the guy. Regardless of his own criminal record, the fact remains they almost killed a man over a fucking wallet AND that he is gay. They are no less despicable. For a given value of “nearly kill”, it seems. Over a fucking wallet and his flagrant abuse of their generosity AND that he is gay… but ask yourself honestly if you would be making so much noise if it weren’t for his sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/57 "2006-03-10T14:58:01Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > He left the hospital against the advice of his attending physician. Being a wanted man, I can see why he would. If the victim is not available, will their still even be a case? There might be enough evidence to try without victim testimony, but does that often happen in non-murder (where, by definition, the victim will never be present) cases. How does it work in domestic abuse cases where the victim doesn’t cooperate? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/58 "2006-03-10T15:04:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Do you guys normally cheerlead for rapists or is this someting new? Yep. I’ve been guilty of it, too. In my defense, I use it as hyperbole. When my emotions are high, I want bad things to happen to bad people. I want vengeance disguised as justice. When I’m calm and rational, I don’t call for prison rape / prison beatings as ancilliary punishment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/59 "2006-03-10T15:10:43Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > NFor a given value of “nearly kill”, it seems. Over a fucking wallet and his flagrant abuse of their generosity AND that he is gay… but ask yourself honestly if you would be making so much noise if it weren’t for his sexuality. Well, we all tend to relate more to stories that we, well, relate to. No? But I’m starting to even question if there was any gay element to this crime. The other cites said the soliders called the guy a fag, but the original story made it sound like they told the cops they beat him up because he was gay. That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Why admit that you beat up a guy just because he was gay? The word “fag” is such a common throw-away term that if they said something like: “Yeah, we beat him up. The fag stole my wallet.” That doesn’t tell me they really knew he was gay. Of course, we could have a whole thread concerning “fag” as a throw-away term and what that says about our society’s veiws on gays in general, but that’s not something unique to the military by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/60 "2006-03-10T15:15:33Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Do you guys normally cheerlead for rapists or is this someting new? There’s a long and non-proud tradition in many, if not most, threads involving rapists and more recently gay-bashers in which one or more people hope that the perps get raped in prison. Often expressed in the form of a joke, because Lord knows nothing says “comedy” like forcible sodomy. > [@Malacandra](#): > > No, but y’know, I sorta think you were predisposed to think that this was gay-bashing and nothing but. Oh come _on_. What exactly was he supposed to think? I saw a story on this incident too, and it was reported as a gay-bashing, _because one of the soldiers said that he beat up a “faggot.”_ Is it so far beyond the mark to think that the severe beating of a gay man by five people, one of whom calls him a faggot to police, is a gay-bashing? Even now that the apparent motive has emerged as revenge for a robbery, is it really all that incredibly unreasonable, in light of the perp calling the victim a “faggot,” that in addition to whatever else is going on that anti-gay bias might be a factor, however small? **Homebrew** pitted the soldiers and the larger anti-gay culture in the military. Based on the information available at the time of the pitting, it was a fair cop. Now that more information has come to light he has acknowledged that new information and modified the pitting. What more would you like him to say? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706.md?page=4)