# Five soldiers beat a gay man nearly to death **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706 "2006-03-09T17:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/81 "2006-03-10T17:58:24Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > In what way is “it’s okay when people take it upon themselves to physically punish others for their crimes outside of the justice system” not a support of vigiliantism? Because you think the guy should be punished twice? :dubious: I just think that a world where the thieves who are caught get a nice beating equals a world where there is less theft equals a better world. YMMV. If a guy steals your wallet you have license to thrash him. The law also has the obligation to punish him. Two distinct things. One does not eliminate the possibility, or need, for the other. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/82 "2006-03-10T17:58:39Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > Out of curiosity, what would be an acceptable level of vigilante violence, in your opinion? The minimal amount of violence necessarily to safely subdue the wallet thief long enough for the proper authorities arrive. These five soldiers most likely exceeded that - by far. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/83 "2006-03-10T17:58:52Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > I’m scrappy, but I’m not a big guy, and faced with five angry soldiers I’d be a smear on the pavement. In fact, most of the men I know would be. So what’s the difference? (Are you saying too that five soldiers on one woman wouldn’t be acceptable, btw?) Any guy that steals the wallet of someone in a bar generally gets what he deserves when caught. This guy got the shit kicked out of him, and he deserved it. I would say that a different approach would be used had the theif been a woman and the mark had still been a man. Under those circumstances then I would simply have said to detain the woman until authorities arrived. If she was combative, then they should protect themselves, but not really throw her a beating. A male theif get no such break and is entitled to a roughing up. 5 male soldiers beating on a female under these circumstances would not be acceptable. 5 female soldiers doing it, I have no problem with. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/84 "2006-03-10T18:01:10Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Any guy that steals the wallet of someone in a bar generally gets what he deserves when caught. This guy got the shit kicked out of him, and he deserved it. > > I would say that a different approach would be used had the theif been a woman and the mark had still been a man. Under those circumstances then I would simply have said to detain the woman until authorities arrived. If she was combative, then they should protect themselves, but not really throw her a beating. A male theif get no such break and is entitled to a roughing up. > 5 male soldiers beating on a female under these circumstances would not be acceptable. 5 female soldiers doing it, I have no problem with. 100% correct on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/85 "2006-03-10T18:03:01Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Any guy that steals the wallet of someone in a bar generally gets what he deserves when caught. This guy got the shit kicked out of him, and he deserved it. > > I would say that a different approach would be used had the theif been a woman and the mark had still been a man. Under those circumstances then I would simply have said to detain the woman until authorities arrived. If she was combative, then they should protect themselves, but not really throw her a beating. A male theif get no such break and is entitled to a roughing up. > 5 male soldiers beating on a female under these circumstances would not be acceptable. 5 female soldiers doing it, I have no problem with. But why? Why? Can anybody fucking explain why? Sorry. It just makes no sense at all to me. It’s not even like you could say it’s not a fair fight against a woman, because it’s not a fair fucking fight against anybody. And magellan01, yeah, I do kind of think the justice system means we don’t get to beat up people who commit crimes against us. Call me a liberal nutjob, but that’s just how I roll. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/86 "2006-03-10T18:03:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I just think that a world where the thieves who are caught get a nice beating equals a world where there is less theft equals a better world. YMMV. My mileage, and the mileage of, oh, the rest of the civilised world. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/87 "2006-03-10T18:06:27Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > My mileage, and the mileage of, oh, the rest of the civilised world. Thank gawd he didn’t steal any pancakes! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/88 "2006-03-10T18:10:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I just think that a world where the thieves who are caught get a nice beating equals a world where there is less theft equals a better world. YMMV. Oops. Meant to type “…thieves caught **in the act** ”. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/89 "2006-03-10T18:21:16Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > But why? Why? Can anybody fucking explain why? > > Sorry. It just makes no sense at all to me. It’s not even like you could say it’s not a fair fight against a woman, because it’s not a fair fucking fight against anybody. The theif lost whatever right they had to a fair fight when they decided to become a theif. Once they became a theif they have an ass beating coming to them if the victim catches them before the law does. I don’t have a reason that will make sense to you for why 5 male soldiers can (in my eyes) beat a man who tried to rob them and they can’t if it’s a woman who tried to rob them. Different rules for different genders. A same sex beat down is no problem for me under these cicumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/90 "2006-03-10T18:22:28Z")
Morally, everyone, no matter the gender, deserves as harsh a beating as he received after theft, or even worse. Realistically, though, the lack of surety is why we don’t authorize vigilante justice. And the attitude that you should be protected from it simply because of your sex is on the continuum of attitudes that leads to men being detained without question when they are accused of domestice violence, and women always believed when they claim not to have engaged in it. Not saying that everyone has that attitude, but some do, and it is the extreme outcome of allowing such gender discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/91 "2006-03-10T18:36:08Z")
Minor nitpick from this and the pancake thread, it’s thief I before E! Sorry, that’s just been bugging me. /end nitpick ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/92 "2006-03-10T18:46:37Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Thank gawd he didn’t steal any pancakes! > -Joe and as you well know, the issue in those threads is completely different from pancake strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/93 "2006-03-10T18:50:50Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > The theif lost whatever right they had to a fair fight when they decided to become a theif. Once they became a theif they have an ass beating coming to them if the victim catches them before the law does. You’re a sick fuck. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Morally, everyone, no matter the gender, deserves as harsh a beating as he received after theft, or even worse. You are also a sick fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/94 "2006-03-10T18:58:46Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > You’re a sick fuck. Fuck off, you choad sniffer. Like I give to shits what the fuck you think. Say, don’t you have a poker game to be losing right about now? ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/95 "2006-03-10T18:59:59Z")
dammit. …TWO shits… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/96 "2006-03-10T19:13:46Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > and as you well know, the issue in those threads is completely different from pancake strawmen. No, not really. But instead I’ll laugh at first reading “Pancake Men”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/97 "2006-03-10T19:18:29Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Fuck off, you choad sniffer. Like I give to shits what the fuck you think. > > Say, don’t you have a poker game to be losing right about now? When I saw this in my inbox I didn’t know if it was directed at me or Otto, and frankly I’m jealous. SWOON! Greathouse, will you hold my hand? I might have to cheat on Martin Hyde with you. You’re even more soulless and morally bankrupt! It just gets me hot, I’m sorry. All this macho “hang 'em high” bullshit really makes my mouth water, if you know what I mean. You big fellas stompin’ around insisting that scum get what they deserve, that there’s Good Guys and Bad Guys and the latter belong under the bootheel of the former forever and ever, amen. It’s so…I don’t know…_kinky_. And I love that it’s a same-sex party only, and that you let the ladies get their hot homoerotic violence on too. It’s mighty w-- er, straight of you. What the fuck is wrong with you, and that other clown? Seriously. Break it down for me. Tell me where in your life you became so fucking divorced from reality that you can’t understand that the _soldiers were more criminal_ in their behavior than the T-H-I-E-F? ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/98 "2006-03-10T19:30:00Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > When I saw this in my inbox I didn’t know if it was directed at me or Otto, and frankly I’m jealous. SWOON! Greathouse, will you hold my hand? I might have to cheat on Martin Hyde with you. You’re even more soulless and morally bankrupt! It just gets me hot, I’m sorry. All this macho “hang 'em high” bullshit really makes my mouth water, if you know what I mean. You big fellas stompin’ around insisting that scum get what they deserve, that there’s Good Guys and Bad Guys and the latter belong under the bootheel of the former forever and ever, amen. It’s so…I don’t know…_kinky_. And I love that it’s a same-sex party only, and that you let the ladies get their hot homoerotic violence on too. It’s mighty w-- er, straight of you. Whatever blows your skirt up, Mary. > [@](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with you, and that other clown? Seriously. Break it down for me. Tell me where in your life you became so fucking divorced from reality that you can’t understand that the _soldiers were more criminal_ in their behavior than the T-H-I-E-F? The T-H-I-E-F brought it upon himself. If he didn’t want to take the chance that he was going to get his ass handed to him, then he shouldn’t have stolen the wallet. I see nothing wrong with what the soldiers did. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/99 "2006-03-10T19:34:31Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Morally, everyone, no matter the gender, deserves as harsh a beating as he received after theft, or even worse. Under your moral system, perhaps. That attitude, however, is even more barbaric than _lex talionis_. Civilized society left your morals in the dust a long time ago. The soldiers let their emotions get the best of them. They should have detained the thief, waited for law enforcement to arrive, and allowed the criminal justice system to decide on an appropriate punishment for his crime according to the letter of the law. Plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706/100 "2006-03-10T19:44:43Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Whatever blows your skirt up, Mary. > > The T-H-I-E-F brought it upon himself. If he didn’t want to take the chance that he was going to get his ass handed to him, then he shouldn’t have stolen the wallet. I see nothing wrong with what the soldiers did. I’m glad to know you (the posters who have expressed similar opinions) feel that way, because you’ve suggested, based evidence being presented that the victim (and he was a victim) stole a wallet, he deserved what he got. How about, if you were to find yourself(ves) driving down the road, minding your own business, obeying all laws, etc. and another driver, who thinks that you’ve cut him off unfairly (you changed lanes), are driving too slow or whatever, at some point when he’s caught up with you, he beats the crap out of you, or shoots and/or kills you, you acknowledge right then and there you deserved it. Because (he thought) you wronged him and he got revenge then and there? And I’ll go ahead and pre-empt you by saying you’ll be back calling this a strawman, or a meme or Gardenian Razor or a shout out to Opal or a pancake. But you’re forgetting – there’s a _reason_ vigilant violence is against the law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-soldiers-beat-a-gay-man-nearly-to-death/347706.md?page=6)