# Five times normal strength? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856 "2012-02-14T22:57:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/21 "2012-02-16T21:29:55Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > A man with 5x the normal strength also has a human brain. That should be a big advantage against less agile animals that probably don’t put much thought into _how_ they fight. Heck, how hard could he throw a fist-sized rock? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/22 "2012-02-17T01:05:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heck, how hard could he throw a fist-sized rock? 5 times faster than you, slowpoke. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/23 "2012-02-17T01:33:26Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > A man with 5x the normal strength also has a human brain. That should be a big advantage against less agile animals that probably don’t put much thought into _how_ they fight. Gorilla and grizzly were the examples I was considering, and intelligence would avail us nothing against an adversary as much quicker than us as I believe they are. Exactly what less agile animals do you have in mind? I would not like the chances of a 5x normal strength human against a buffalo, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/24 "2012-02-17T02:03:11Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Gorilla and grizzly were the examples I was considering, and intelligence > would avail us nothing against an adversary as much quicker than us as > I believe they are. > > Exactly what less agile animals do you have in mind? I would not like the > chances of a 5x normal strength human against a buffalo, for example. I don’t have any reason to believe gorillas or grizzlies are faster than us. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if gorillas were slower, considering their strength. What reason do you have to think they’re faster? One major disadvantage would for a human would be weight, unless the 5x strength is based on bigger muscles, stronger bones etc. Perhaps that would be the downfall of the man. Unless he uses a weapon I can’t see him being able to kill a grizzly without being able to effectively pin it. Perhaps he could successfully avoid its attacks and punch it in the head enough times to weaken it…? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/25 "2012-02-17T04:26:40Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Good point. It _is_ a lot easier to lift a barbell because you can get your center of gravity closer to the center of mass of the object. I obliquely mentioned it by saying that he might be able to lift small cars with effort (theoretical strength for lifting 1-ton overhead) but that he wouldn’t be able to do that with regular cars. On second thought, though, even small cars would be more like a tire flip than a clean and jerk, assuming he could get the leverage he needed to lift it without the car coming apart on him. > [@Bozuit](#): > > One major disadvantage would for a human would be weight, unless the 5x strength is based on bigger muscles, stronger bones etc. Perhaps that would be the downfall of the man. Unless he uses a weapon I can’t see him being able to kill a grizzly without being able to effectively pin it. Perhaps he could successfully avoid its attacks and punch it in the head enough times to weaken it…? The weight is actually another big issue when it comes to lifting cars and such. At some point, no matter how strong you are, leverage is a limiting factor. That’s why the strongest powerlifters are universally fat–the big gut is a counterweight. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/26 "2012-02-17T06:06:59Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t have any reason to believe gorillas or grizzlies are faster than us. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if gorillas were slower, considering their strength. What reason do you have to think they’re faster? According to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_attack), grizzly bears have a top speed of about 40 mph. According to [this](http://www.biology.ucr.edu/people/faculty/Garland/Garl1983_JZL.pdf), top speed of a gorilla is about 20mph, which I wouldn’t say is significantly slower than humans. So as far as running speed goes, they are not significantly slower. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/27 "2012-02-17T12:40:27Z")
> [@groman](#): > > According to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_attack), grizzly bears have a top speed of about 40 mph. According to [this](http://www.biology.ucr.edu/people/faculty/Garland/Garl1983_JZL.pdf), top speed of a gorilla is about 20mph, which I wouldn’t say is significantly slower than humans. So as far as running speed goes, they are not significantly slower. I assumed we were talking about speeds such as reacting and slashing etc. A grizzly might be able to run at 40 mph but how much space does that take? Can they see where they’re going well enough to react if someone dodges that attack and tries to stab them in the side (bullfighting style, which works with a man of 1x strength!). Plus a man with 5x strength must be able to rival a gorilla or even a grizzly in speed if you consider that a grizzly shouldn’t even be given the chance to run at 40 mph. ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/28 "2012-02-17T17:57:10Z")
Also, a grizzly runs 40mph for a very short time ( a charge), not over a distance. Point being: Humans are usually good at distance. (your super human might not be, of course). ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/29 "2012-02-17T21:00:46Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t have any reason to believe gorillas or grizzlies are faster than us. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if gorillas were slower, considering their strength. What reason do you have to think they’re faster?.. Another member has documented the faster sprinting ability of grizzly, and the slower sprinting ability of gorillas. I have also seen nature shows leaving no doubt that grizzly can sustain high enough speed to run down any human over any distance. However, by speed I meant reflexes. Joe Frazier and Ken Norton were far from the fastest running humans; it was the speed at which they could move their hands and feet within a short distance of their opponents that made them what they were. This sounds like something The Master would be able to track down better than any of us, but it is my impression from years of reading about nature, which I cannot source, that humans reflexes match up poorly against most wild animals, including most primates. Another thing to keep in mind is that gorillas have a great weapon in their powerful jaws and big teeth, and Grizzly have claws as well as a strong bite. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/30 "2012-02-17T22:28:33Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Another member has documented the faster sprinting ability of grizzly, > and the slower sprinting ability of gorillas. I have also seen nature shows > leaving no doubt that grizzly can sustain high enough speed to run down > any human over any distance. > > However, by speed I meant reflexes. Joe Frazier and Ken Norton were far > from the fastest running humans; it was the speed at which they could > move their hands and feet within a short distance of their opponents that > made them what they were. This sounds like something The Master would > be able to track down better than any of us, but it is my impression from > years of reading about nature, which I cannot source, that humans reflexes > match up poorly against most wild animals, including most primates. > > Another thing to keep in mind is that gorillas have a great weapon in their > powerful jaws and big teeth, and Grizzly have claws as well as a strong bite. I did explain that I also meant reflexes, although more important I think is the speed the fighters can attack with (punches, swipes, kicks etc). I also replied to the points about the running speeds of the animals: firstly that a stronger human would presumably be able to run faster than an average one (how much faster I don’t know); secondly that high speeds might not be a huge advantage considering the momentum those animals will build up, making it easy to dodge them; thirdly that a human with a human brain should be smart enough in many situations to avoid allowing them to attack at those speeds (unless using the dodging strategy). I’m envisaging keeping your distance enough that they can’t reach you without having to take a step forward but aren’t so far away that they can gather any real speed, then just let them attack, dodge it and either punch them if you have no weapon or of course use your weapon if you have it. I’m not saying it’s foolproof, but I think this superman would have a chance if he uses his brain. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/31 "2012-02-18T18:22:56Z")
I have found some research by The Master which appears to establish that 135-165lb chimps may be 4x to 6x stronger than a human the same size: [Can a 90-lb. chimp clobber a full-grown man?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2/can-a-90-lb-chimp-clobber-a-full-grown-man) God only knows how much stronger than that a 300-400lb healthy male gorilla might be. > [@Bozuit](#): > > I did explain that I also meant reflexes, although more important I think is the speed the fighters can attack with (punches, swipes, kicks etc). I believe what you are speaking of here is a function of reflex speed. > [@Bozuit](#): > > I also replied to the points about the running speeds of the animals: firstly that a stronger human would presumably be able to run faster than an average one (how much faster I don’t know); The OP hypothetical was limited to increased strength. > [@Bozuit](#): > > secondly that high speeds might not be a huge advantage considering the momentum those animals will build up, making it easy to dodge them; You cannot dodge something with better reflexes. I am not going to look up any wildlife experts on this note, but I have a feeling they would would at me really funny if I asked if it would be possible for a human to “dodge” a charging grizzly. As for gorilla, a top 10% human athlete might be able to outrun them, but the point of this thread is what the result would be of a fight, not a race. > [@Bozuit](#): > > thirdly that a human with a human brain should be smart enough in many situations to avoid allowing them to attack at those speeds (unless using the dodging strategy). I’m envisaging keeping your distance enough that they can’t reach you without having to take a step forward but aren’t so far away that they can gather any real speed, then just let them attack, dodge it and either punch them if you have no weapon or of course use your weapon if you have it. I’m not saying it’s foolproof, but I think this superman would have a chance if he uses his brain. You cannot dodge something else with better reflexes. Also, both gorilla and bear have much longer reaches than humans-- floor to ceiling arm span of over 8’ in some gorilla subspecies: [Gorilla Natural Histroy](http://homepage.mac.com/wildlifeweb/gorillas/info/nh.html) ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/32 "2012-02-18T19:57:53Z")
PS: Here is a link to a _Scientific American_ article probably used by Cecil which describes conduct of studies of chimp strength: [Chimp Strength Study](http://animalcreativity.webs.com/The%20strength%20of%20the%20chimp%20and%20orang%202.PDF) This is an interesting topic, and I wonder why much more testing has not been conducted. The article cited above mentions difficulty getting the subjects to cooperate, but if they can be trained to ride bicycles and rollerskate then surely a way can be found to get them to pump iron. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/33 "2012-02-18T20:21:13Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Could you take on a lion bare-handed and win? How about a gorilla or a grizzly bear? Would you fight the bear lion-handed? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856/34 "2012-02-18T20:21:44Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I believe what you are speaking of here is a function of reflex speed. No it’s not. Having a faster punch is nothing to do with reflexes. > [@colonial](#): > > The OP hypothetical was limited to increased strength. Which will increase speed. There’s nothing saying no increase in speed in the OP. > [@colonial](#): > > You cannot dodge something with better reflexes. Of course you can. No matter how great an animal’s reflexes are it still has to overcome intertia, of which there will be plenty if it’s travelling at 40mph. Besides this, you don’t use reflexes to dodge - you know exactly what you’re going to do and have planned it in advance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-times-normal-strength/612856.md?page=1)