# Five Years of Iraq: Where Do We Stand, How Do We Leave? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929 "2008-03-19T12:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/61 "2008-03-25T13:23:18Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] No one could have foreseen that the Surge’s benefits might be temporary. [/QUOTE] Nobody could have predicted that the third-biggest armed force in the country would start using their “Gosh, if you continue to do things I don’t like I just _might_ cease my cease fire card” to their advantage, either. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/62 "2008-03-25T15:38:13Z")
Not that there haven’t been some [regrets.](http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/03/24/tomo/) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/63 "2008-03-25T16:13:13Z")
to insure that islamic fundamentalism will take over Iraq. We removed a secular dictator-and opened up iraq to sectarian violence. So why would we be surprised if some religious government emerges? And ALL of this is EXACTLY what Al-Queda WANTED! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/64 "2008-03-25T17:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] to insure that islamic fundamentalism will take over Iraq. We removed a secular dictator-and opened up iraq to sectarian violence. So why would we be surprised if some religious government emerges? And ALL of this is EXACTLY what Al-Queda WANTED! :smack: [/QUOTE] Al-Qaeda never wanted a **Shi’ite** government in Iraq or anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/65 "2008-03-26T02:03:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Al-Qaeda never wanted a **Shi’ite** government in Iraq or anywhere else. [/QUOTE] But…but the Iranian Shi’ites and al-Qaeda _love_ each other! It’s true! John McCain said so, and he’s a straight talker, so it must be so! ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/66 "2008-03-26T02:33:18Z")
I read an article in the Trib either today or yesterday reagarding the 5th anniversary of the US invasion. Some high-level member of the Iraqi government was commenting that it was necessary for US troops to remain in Iraq until the Iraqis could take over their own security. Of course, this begs the question as to when that magical moment might arrive. After all, it has already been five fricking years. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/67 "2008-03-26T03:02:50Z")
Arguing whether the Surge is improving things in Iraq is missing the point . . . The more important question is “When can we expect things to be improved to the point we can _leave_?” (I’m not ruling out “never” as a possible answer.) I’d love to hear **Sam Stone** or any other supporter of the Surge give an answer to that question. Come on, what’s your best guess? Follow up question: How many thousands of American soldiers do you expect will be dead by then, and how many trillions of dollars will we have spent? Follow up to follow up: How in the hell can you possibly think it’s worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/68 "2008-03-26T04:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Al-Qaeda never wanted a **Shi’ite** government in Iraq or anywhere else. [/QUOTE] They probably prefer it to a secular government. For that matter, I expect that the American fundies think that a Shi’ite fundamentalist state is better than the Ultimate Evil of secularism. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929/69 "2008-03-26T04:24:17Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] I read an article in the Trib either today or yesterday reagarding the 5th anniversary of the US invasion. Some high-level member of the Iraqi government was commenting that it was necessary for US troops to remain in Iraq until the Iraqis could take over their own security. Of course, this begs the question [/QUOTE] No, it does not. > **[Begging the question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question)** > > In classical rhetoric and logic, begging the question or assuming the conclusion (Latin: petītiō principiī) is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion. Historically, begging the question refers to a fault in a dialectical argument in which the speaker assumes some premise that has not been demonstrated to be true. In modern philosophical usage, it has come to refer to an argument in which the premises assume the conclusion without supportin... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/five-years-of-iraq-where-do-we-stand-how-do-we-leave/441929.md?page=3)